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New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD (Read 228687 times)

Gordyf

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #160 on: November 28, 2015, 06:51:14 PM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 28, 2015, 06:20:59 PM
Today Saturday, I spoke with several people at the range that were in line at HPD to get a permit to acquire or renew a long gun permit. The officer went down the line and asked people with Kaiser and Straub to step out of the line. They were handed "the letter" told that they would have leave and come back after they have their doctor comply with the wording. Everyone else can stay and continue. If this has happened to anyone else, please pm me.

Soo it is safe to assume that the other providers have caved and given them what they want?
I think that if privacy is an issue, maybe I like Kaiser. This is clearly discriminatory to a group of folks.
Smells of a new CO that has an agenda and wants to sweep clean. Perhaps on orders from above.
I voted for our mayor because of his perceived support of our community.
May I be struck dead if I make that mistake again.
The question still remains... What if you don't have a Doc?
Maybe I won't next time I am in.
And I really don't have a shrink. Never once been to one.
Gordy
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Aloha
Gordy

causa mortis

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #161 on: November 28, 2015, 07:23:09 PM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 28, 2015, 06:37:09 PM
Please contact your representatives and tell them what you think about this "new requirement" in a constructive way. I'm not talking about a thumb print or another picture. Nothing wrong with that as you  have your picture taken when you renew your license. If you think that what's going is preventing  you the law abiding citizen from purchasing a firearm, say so. If you think that you are being singled out because of your medical plan only, say so. You don't have to write a novel. Don't be a bystander. We all know what happens to bystanders.

State Representatives   http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/members/legislators.aspx?chamber=H

City Council member   Calor Fukunaga is the council's HPD Liaison very important that she hears from us.  cafukunaga@honolulu.gov

I wrote e mails to both of them. Hopefully this gets the ball rolling.
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #162 on: November 28, 2015, 07:44:43 PM »
Gordy,

Do not assume your first line at all. If you have a provider that is in private practice, lets say in Kailua. The release and the yellow letter goes to him or her. Provider can respond with "no issues" or does not respond at all. Like throws away the request. If no other reasons to deny, HPD issues. If the doctor responds with "Gordy is a nut case and smokes weed all day" well now you can assume what's going to happen. There's a huge beef behind the scene between the three HPD, Kaiser and Straub. We are the collateral damage as a result of friendly fire from 801 S. Beretania St.

 Don't loose faith here folks. Just look what a  handful of bicyclist accomplished on Kapiolani Blvd.  A classic example "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".  Be patient, respectful and relentless in what we are trying to accomplish. Meet me at the range tomorrow Sunday to spread the word. Write your Representatives, Police Chief, Mayor, City Council Member http://www.honolulu.gov/council/cclhome/ccl.html . Lets have some constructive movement, bowel movement does not qualify.  :shaka:  :stopcock: If you have any info on the subject matter, please pm me. Don't be the silent majority.
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #163 on: November 28, 2015, 07:47:44 PM »
Dear Ms Fukunaga,

I have further information regarding the treatment citizens are receiving while in line at the HPD firearms section.

Today Saturday 11/28 I spoke with several people at the Koko Head shooting complex. They were in line at HPD to get a permit to acquire or renew their long gun permit. The officer went down the long line of people an asked everyone with Kaiser Plan or Straub to step out of the line. They were handed the “letter” and told that they would have to leave and come back, after their doctor complies with the wording. Everyone else can stay and continue. This happened on Wednesday 11/25. I suffered the same faith on 11/24.  Labeling a specific group only. I find that discriminating. Gosh this is 2015 not Feb 1942, thats how we treated our fellow citizen Japanese American’s. That’s what the Nazi’s did in Poland and Hungry to the Jews, singled them out.

Ms Fukunaga, I need your help to stop this abnormal behavior from the same people that we intrust to protect our rights.

Best Regards,

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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #164 on: November 28, 2015, 07:50:49 PM »
The word is "Relentless"  while respectful. Thats how I roll. You want to come along for the ride, PM me
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dogman

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #165 on: November 28, 2015, 09:13:39 PM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 28, 2015, 07:47:44 PM
Dear Ms Fukunaga,

I have further information regarding the treatment citizens are receiving while in line at the HPD firearms section.

Today Saturday 11/28 I spoke with several people at the Koko Head shooting complex. They were in line at HPD to get a permit to acquire or renew their long gun permit. The officer went down the long line of people an asked everyone with Kaiser Plan or Straub to step out of the line. They were handed the “letter” and told that they would have to leave and come back, after their doctor complies with the wording. Everyone else can stay and continue. This happened on Wednesday 11/25. I suffered the same faith on 11/24.  Labeling a specific group only. I find that discriminating. Gosh this is 2015 not Feb 1942, thats how we treated our fellow citizen Japanese American’s. That’s what the Nazi’s did in Poland and Hungry to the Jews, singled them out.
Ms Fukunaga, I need your help to stop this abnormal behavior from the same people that we intrust to protect our rights.
Best Regards,
Quote from: Inspector on November 27, 2015, 12:33:53 PM
On a slightly brighter note I spoke with the bald officer and he said his Major was scheduled to have a meeting with Kaiser and Straub to try and clear up this mess. He couldn't say when this was going to occur. But he said soon. That is all he would say about it.

I do not believe that HPD is the problem. Previous post have mentioned Kaiser sending applicant's medical records to HPD for review. From my conversation with HPD it sounds like now Straub is asking HPD to send officers to their facility to review applicant's records and determine if the applicant should or should not be approved for their permit to acquire because of mental health. HPD's reasonable response is they are not doctors and they cannot make that determination. I believe Kaiser and Straub are the problem and not HPD. I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.
 
I was told the same thing as Inspector's quote, that HPD will meet with Kaiser and Straub to try to come to an agreement and return things back to "normal". I sincerely believe HPD is trying to work this out so that law abiding citizens can continue to purchase firearms within the current (although ridiculous ) system.

The bald officer is Mick :)
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eyeeatingfish

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #166 on: November 28, 2015, 10:28:31 PM »
Other than a lawsuit, can anyone think of a way that will make Kaiser want to comply with writing these letters? Perhaps some sort of inundation or paperwork or something that will hit them in their pocketbook. I don't know if we have enough Kaiser members, but if there were enough maybe we could tie up their phone lines or send so many letters it would cause them headache and cost money replying to everyone. Perhaps there is something in the medical contract where a member can appeal something. If Kaiser had to hear thousands of appeals it might get their attention, especially if it got to the level of needing to be heard by 3rd party to decide the issue. Cannot remember what those guys are called right now but...oh yeah, arbitration! Imagine so many separate complaints all going to arbitration.

I don't have Kaiser though and don't know what the contract says so I am just brainstorming for ideas.
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Dumbgun

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2015, 03:32:17 AM »
I sent  a tip tip thing to khon news. So far no response or reporting.
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2015, 05:12:09 AM »
"
I do not believe that HPD is the problem. Previous post have mentioned Kaiser sending applicant's medical records to HPD for review. From my conversation with HPD it sounds like now Straub is asking HPD to send officers to their facility to review applicant's records and determine if the applicant should or should not be approved for their permit to acquire because of mental health. HPD's reasonable response is they are not doctors and they cannot make that determination. I believe Kaiser and Straub are the problem and not HPD. I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.
 
I was told the same thing as Inspector's quote, that HPD will meet with Kaiser and Straub to try to come to an agreement and return things back to "normal". I sincerely believe HPD is trying to work this out so that law abiding citizens can continue to purchase firearms within the current (although ridiculous ) system.

Dogman,

If HPD doesn't  want to look at your medical records at their office (Kaiser sending medical records) why would HPD want to go to Straub to look at your medical records. I don't believe any of that. I'm not saying I don't  believe you. Doesn't make sense. No hospital in their right mind would allow (legally) police access to that area. They will send your records, with proper authorization but very few people have access to medical records in the hospital. I know,  I work there. Furthermore, determining if you are capable of owning a firearm legally is not the doctors job. The chief of police determines that. Your doctor has three choices. Respond with yes there are issues, no there are no issues or does not respond at all. None of the responses will state that you can own a firearm. Wold you Dr Dogman want to say that I can own a firearm. Doctors give medical opinions. You being able to own a firearm is not a medical opinion. Please read 134-2.
 I would be curious to know how many folks on this forum have read HRS 134-2 Chapter a, b and c is all you need to read. Please read (several) times and understand it. What amazed me at the range, how many folks did not see in the verbiage of the "letter" that they would be implicating themselves having had mental and drug dependency issues at one time but no longer do. When they finally saw what it said, they all said the same thing. No way... I will never attest to that nor would I want my doctor to either since it"s not true.
 Lawyers at the range said "no way was that written by a lawyer and they recommend not agreeing to participate".  Don't get twisted by what the balled officer "is saying". Unless you heard it from him, its hearsay. Even if I heard it from him I don't believe it. The reason in my three visits there this past week I heard so many different stories. I look at actions now. "Actions speak louder than words". That is the only thing we should all look at.
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #169 on: November 29, 2015, 05:19:41 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on November 28, 2015, 10:28:31 PM
Other than a lawsuit, can anyone think of a way that will make Kaiser want to comply with writing these letters? Perhaps some sort of inundation or paperwork or something that will hit them in their pocketbook. I don't know if we have enough Kaiser members, but if there were enough maybe we could tie up their phone lines or send so many letters it would cause them headache and cost money replying to everyone. Perhaps there is something in the medical contract where a member can appeal something. If Kaiser had to hear thousands of appeals it might get their attention, especially if it got to the level of needing to be heard by 3rd party to decide the issue. Cannot remember what those guys are called right now but...oh yeah, arbitration! Imagine so many separate complaints all going to arbitration.

I don't have Kaiser though and don't know what the contract says so I am just brainstorming for ideas.

eyeeatingfish,

Although I see and hear what you are saying the only thing that is constructive is a your suggestion of a lawsuit. The rest is wishful thinking and barking up the wrong tree. The hospitals are not the problem please read HRS 134-2
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #170 on: November 29, 2015, 05:22:07 AM »
If you think that what is being perpetrated on you is unconstitutional, contact the ACLU. They love this kind of stuff.
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scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2015, 05:23:23 AM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 29, 2015, 05:22:07 AM
If you think that what is being perpetrated on you is unconstitutional, contact the ACLU. They love this kind of stuff. I will be at the range all day today talking to fellow firearms enthusiasts. 
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dogman

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #172 on: November 29, 2015, 06:42:31 AM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 29, 2015, 05:12:09 AM
Your doctor has three choices. Respond with yes there are issues, no there are no issues or does not respond at all.
The problem seems to be that Kaiser and Straub are not replying with ANY "no there are no issues".
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bass monkey

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #173 on: November 29, 2015, 07:39:40 AM »
Quote from: dogman on November 29, 2015, 06:42:31 AM
The problem seems to be that Kaiser and Straub are not replying with ANY "no there are no issues".

Why is that suddenly a problem? We been doing the same paperwork for years. Seems like hpd is not satisfied with no response anymore.

I remember a while back the council was looking into options for firearms registration at other locations due to long lines and long waits. Perhaps now is the time to remind them about that. Would be an add benefit to us.

I also sent email to my representatives informing them I'm not happy about the changes.
I also like sometimes suggestion of contracting the news, I'll do that too
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Gordyf

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #174 on: November 29, 2015, 07:54:21 AM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 29, 2015, 05:23:23 AM


We all know that the ACLU cherry picks the Bill of Rights. They may say that they defend it all, but really only the 1st, 4th and maybe the 5th. They are selective ad nauseum.
Certainly not the 2nd. It does not fit their narrative.
My goodness!that one might allow the unwashed masses to have guns.

Bass monkey has a point. I have had Kaiser most of my working life and a PTA continuously since the early '90s.
Never a problem. Wonder what changed??
Gordy
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Aloha
Gordy

scorpio ps

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #175 on: November 29, 2015, 12:43:25 PM »
Dogman, Kaiser or Straub does not have to reply. By law .....   what I am hearing from the masses that do not have the two providers. Their doctor"s have been filing the request in file 13, yet the applicant was awarded the permit. That is still the rule today.  That is the Law....

bass monkey, You are correct "what is different now". I have not been able to get the same answer more than once on the three different trips to HPD this past week. I don't know nor do I care. Whatever is different now, is affecting my contitutional right to purchase a firearm.

Gordy, You maybe correct in your opinion about the ACLU. Not sure if you are speaking from a personal experience or just an opinion, as I would like to know more about it. My contention with the ACLU would be that I am along with other Kaiser and Straub patients, being singled out and discriminated purely on the basis of my medical plan. Which is not grounds from being turned away. 

Met many people and made good headway today at the range. Many were directly affected or would shortly be affected by  the "letter".  Wednesday the 9th we have the opportunity  to present our case in front of some very important people. If you are interested in attending, send me a PM .

On a lighter note how many people remember the the speed detection Vans that roamed our roads and would automatically take a pic of your plates and a couple weeks later you would get a ticket in the mail. Ben Cayetano had the intestinal fortitude to cancel the contract and the vans went away.

Those vans were named the " TALIVANS"   I am taking this opportunity to name "the letter"      "The TALI LETTER".
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macsak

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #176 on: November 29, 2015, 12:53:49 PM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 29, 2015, 12:43:25 PM

Met many people and made good headway today at the range. Many were directly affected or would shortly be affected by  the "letter".  Wednesday the 9th we have the opportunity  to present our case in front of some very important people. If you are interested in attending, send me a PM .


perhaps you might get more support for whatever you have planned on dec 9th by putting it on this forum rather than relying on people pming you individually
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macsak

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #177 on: November 29, 2015, 12:55:13 PM »
Quote from: scorpio ps on November 29, 2015, 12:43:25 PM

Gordy, You maybe correct in your opinion about the ACLU. Not sure if you are speaking from a personal experience or just an opinion, as I would like to know more about it. My contention with the ACLU would be that I am along with other Kaiser and Straub patients, being singled out and discriminated purely on the basis of my medical plan. Which is not grounds from being turned away. 


do a search, there was an instance in the last few years where the ACLU helped with a case on the 2a side
i cannot remember the details, but i believe HDF or HRA was involved
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Inspector

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #178 on: November 29, 2015, 01:18:41 PM »
Met Scorpio today. Nice guy. Very passionate about this issue. Like him, I refuse to have a doctor write a letter verbatim to what HPD wants. So I will probably have to go without buying guns for a while. Too bad because there is one more I want to buy and I can't right now. Due to lack of funds and this issue.

I called the lawyer Rick Holcomb and we will be talking the beginning of this week. I would prefer to wait and see what happens with the talks between HPD and Kaiser/Straub but I figure if nothing comes of the talks then I am that much farther ahead with Mr. Holcomb. The issue is I have not been turned down, yet. Because my last permit request was before last Monday it went through unscathed. But my long gun permit expires in February (I thought it was December) so I will get turned down at that time.
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

causa mortis

Re: New Change in Firearm Paper Work at HPD
« Reply #179 on: November 29, 2015, 01:50:58 PM »
Well, I went to see a doctor not affiliated with Kaiser who agreed to write the letter, but without the exact phrasing "no longer affected by..." in it. I have to renew my long gun permit on Wednesday. So, I'll see how it goes. If I'm denied, then I guess I'm calling Mr. Holcomb and signing on to any litigation.
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