Starting today for everyone or just for the kaiser people?

I believe it was only Kaiser and Straub people that need a "note" in the first place.

If that's true, guess I'm going down tomorrow to pick up my handgun

I will be attempting to call the Firearms Section prior to making an attempt to stand in line and will let you know what happens.  I did fill out my application on December 11, 2015 and process stalled after not being able to secure a medical clearance letter.  Application set to expire on December 31, 2015, if no resolution then I need to reapply.  I hope that my visit to Behavioral Science to work out an Rx to help with smoking cessation (this visit was approved by PCP).  Tried one Rx and it kept me awake and I ended up with what I started with Zyban (which has same characteristics as an anti-depressant).  I did end up quitting  (so far 5 years!) and it is not easy as those who smoked will attest. We'll see what happens.

By the way, I have shared our dilemma of securing permits with a number of folks and below is a response by an acquaintance who left HI for WA....grew up here his entire adult life and moved to WA about 8 years ago.  He's doing well and will retire and stay in WA.  He laughs at what's been going on here and just reminds me that our ridiculous challenges are an good example of why he and his Family left Hawaii.

According to him, there has been an increase in the number of conceal and carry applications "...130 people a day have been applying and almost 500,000 folks in WA have it.  that's like a third of all Hawaii residents thought you might be interested  how it works here" ... I guess he means America...

You can share this with other discussion threads on Conceal and Carry if you'd like

http://www.southsound911.org/153/Concealed-Pistol-Licenses

"Happy New Year!"

Sounds like good news. I put off buying a bunch of Christmas presents for myself because of the whole Kaiser/Straub fiasco.

I swear the universe hates me...Security Equipment was closed today LOL! Gonna wait until Monday...I just bought a new TRP from OGC back in November and never had a problem. If you guys got through, gonna go to SE on Tuesday!!!

Whole thing starts right before Black Friday, then ends day before Christmas. Some of the best sales of the year during that period. Feel like a big sham, it definitely stopped me from purchasing.

We were at the station today and one of the cops told us starting today, 12/24/2015, they do not require a Dr. note. Call them or go down to verify just in case.

Even if this is corrected now, if I was with Kaiser/Straub and IF given the opportunity to change, I would switch to HMSA or another plan that doesn't play games with people's lives.   
My opinion only. 

Whole thing starts right before Black Friday, then ends day before Christmas. Some of the best sales of the year during that period. Feel like a big sham, it definitely stopped me from purchasing.

So convenient.  LGS(plural)  should join in the suit.

Even if this is corrected now, if I was with Kaiser/Straub and IF given the opportunity to change, I would switch to HMSA or another plan that doesn't play games with people's lives.   
My opinion only.

It is not a Kaiser or Straub problem, it is HPD.  I work for Kaiser, have for 15 years, and I have spoken to numerous parties including our lawyers about this.  Kaiser's policy has always (let me repeat that ALWAYS) been to send over the medical records requested to HPD just like we signed for them.  HPD used to review them, and now feels like making Kaiser and Straub provide a letter attesting to your mental status.  HPD has decided to change the process, not Kaiser and Straub.  Stop bashing your medical insurer when the douchebags in question work at HPD.  I have also spoken to the Dr. who wrote the letter HPD was giving out.  He never gave permission for this letter to be passed around by HPD, and as of last week has or will be sending a cease and desist to them. 

It is not a Kaiser or Straub problem, it is HPD.  I work for Kaiser, have for 15 years, and I have spoken to numerous parties including our lawyers about this.  Kaiser's policy has always (let me repeat that ALWAYS) been to send over the medical records requested to HPD just like we signed for them.  HPD used to review them, and now feels like making Kaiser and Straub provide a letter attesting to your mental status.  HPD has decided to change the process, not Kaiser and Straub.  Stop bashing your medical insurer when the douchebags in question work at HPD.  I have also spoken to the Dr. who wrote the letter HPD was giving out.  He never gave permission for this letter to be passed around by HPD, and as of last week has or will be sending a cease and desist to them.

So how is changing insurers bashing, just because you work for them?  People should have a choice and if not happy with the service should be free to move.  Nobody owes Kaiser/Straub.

So how is changing insurers bashing, just because you work for them?  People should have a choice and if not happy with the service should be free to move.  Nobody owes Kaiser/Straub.

If you change insurers to avoid the HPD letter snafu, you are avoiding the problem, not fixing it. 

If HPD gets away with requiring this letter from Kaiser and Straub members, who's to say they won't make it an across-the-board requirement for all members, even those who don't have insurance?

If you change insurers for the letter issue alone, then you are giving into HPD.

JMHO.

It is not a Kaiser or Straub problem, it is HPD.  I work for Kaiser, have for 15 years, and I have spoken to numerous parties including our lawyers about this.  Kaiser's policy has always (let me repeat that ALWAYS) been to send over the medical records requested to HPD just like we signed for them.  HPD used to review them, and now feels like making Kaiser and Straub provide a letter attesting to your mental status.  HPD has decided to change the process, not Kaiser and Straub.  Stop bashing your medical insurer when the douchebags in question work at HPD.  I have also spoken to the Dr. who wrote the letter HPD was giving out.  He never gave permission for this letter to be passed around by HPD, and as of last week has or will be sending a cease and desist to them.

Actually, it is both HPD and Kaiser.

Firearm disqualification for medical reasons is defined right there in the law, so how can Kaiser say they cannot make a determination? Its pretty commonsense if someone has an organic brain disease, mental disorder or addiction that is serious enough to warrant an opinion from a physician that the individual is not mentally fit to own firearms.

Further more, a doctor is not held liable for issuing a letter for an individual, so long as they do not do so with malicious intent. This is defined in HRS 134-18.

I call bullshit on Kaiser, just like I call bullshit on HPD for most of their firearm policies.

Actually, it is both HPD and Kaiser.

Firearm disqualification for medical reasons is defined right there in the law, so how can Kaiser say they cannot make a determination? Its pretty commonsense if someone has an organic brain disease, mental disorder or addiction that is serious enough to warrant an opinion from a physician that the individual is not mentally fit to own firearms.

Further more, a doctor is not held liable for issuing a letter for an individual, so long as they do not do so with malicious intent. This is defined in HRS 134-18.

I call bullshit on Kaiser, just like I call bullshit on HPD for most of their firearm policies.

Actually, it's not Kaiser/Straub. It was a change in HPD policy, and an illegal one at that.

The law does not read that a medical provider must "Make a determination" as to a persons mental fitness to own a firearm. It says they must "Provide information relating to the persons medical history" relevant to their mental state. It's quite a leap from "providing information" via medical records to "making a determination", which would require a mental fitness exam.

The reality is that a persons mental state can, and will, change. Either over time, or due to some outside influence, and it may not be apparent to a persons physician, that they may see once a year. HRS 134-18 notwithstanding, and due the current state of our judicial system, a suit could be brought against the doctor and the provider. Whether it would stand up in court is irrelevant, publicly, the damage would be done and the provider and doctor could suffer damage to their reputation and loss of income because of it.

IMO, this was an attempt by the powers that be, through HPD, to force the medical providers to commit to performing a mental evaluation without having to go through the "hassle" of changing the law to require said evaluation. Something they know would face stiff opposition, amongst a host of other problems. Had they been successful with Kaiser/Straub it's a sure bet that they would've expanded that "requirement" to the rest of us in due course.

Mark my words, we WILL see legislation to this effect introduced this year or the next, if hasn't been already.

Actually, it's not Kaiser/Straub. It was a change in HPD policy, and an illegal one at that.

The law does not read that a medical provider must "Make a determination" as to a persons mental fitness to own a firearm. It says they must "Provide information relating to the persons medical history" relevant to their mental state. It's quite a leap from "providing information" via medical records to "making a determination", which would require a mental fitness exam.

The reality is that a persons mental state can, and will, change. Either over time, or due to some outside influence, and it may not be apparent to a persons physician, that they may see once a year. HRS 134-18 notwithstanding, and due the current state of our judicial system, a suit could be brought against the doctor and the provider. Whether it would stand up in court is irrelevant, publicly, the damage would be done and the provider and doctor could suffer damage to their reputation and loss of income because of it.

IMO, this was an attempt by the powers that be, through HPD, to force the medical providers to commit to performing a mental evaluation without having to go through the "hassle" of changing the law to require said evaluation. Something they know would face stiff opposition, amongst a host of other problems. Had they been successful with Kaiser/Straub it's a sure bet that they would've expanded that "requirement" to the rest of us in due course.

Mark my words, we WILL see legislation to this effect introduced this year or the next, if hasn't been already.

THIS

and just wait and see WHO will be doing "evaluations"....     I can see  it now, they'll find the most anti-gun politically correct headshrinker that shall do all evaluations.  See where your rights are after that!

.

The time is NOW to decide which side of the fence you sit.  The times of not caring and just "putting up" with what they throw at us are now at an end.  IF you want your 2A rights you NEED TO DO SOMETHING to fight for them.

-  If you are caught up in this mess, contact Mr. Holcomb

For everyone else-

-  If you are not registered to vote, get registered and VOTE.  Vote for 2A candidates, make that your number one issue. Every thing in this state is so effed up already anyway, all other issues wouldn't matter who you vote for.  MAKE 2A #1.

-  Start calling or writing all your reps IMMEDIATELY and REGULARLY.  Let them know 2A is your issue, and will not accept any infringements of your RIGHTS.  Legislative session starts January 20, 2016, 10am!

Okay, I just contacted HPD Firearms Division this morning regarding the situation about "Kaiser-gate" (see what I did there ) and there is no longer an issue with it. You can go down and apply for a gun permit...so I'll see all you 2AHawaii members down there later today LOL!!! Good luck and Happy Holidays all!! 

If you change insurers to avoid the HPD letter snafu, you are avoiding the problem, not fixing it. 

If HPD gets away with requiring this letter from Kaiser and Straub members, who's to say they won't make it an across-the-board requirement for all members, even those who don't have insurance?

If you change insurers for the letter issue alone, then you are giving into HPD.

JMHO.

I see the problem as not being able to name one primary doctor on the medical form for a permit  (correct me if wrong).  The form should be addressed to your doctor only and not sent to admin people.  My doctor belongs to a clinic but I list his name.  If I put the clinic, it would probably go to some clerk who would refer this to their supervisor  who may send HPD a letter saying can't determine.   Also I don't belong to this clinic, it's only a place which provides an office for my doctor and I'm not obligated to them.  With the previous and possibly new attacks to legal gun ownership, I feel a person wanting to acquire needs to take out variables that may prevent his permit, like not being able to identify your doctor who knows your history.   Of course in the future the state's laws and HPDs policies may change for the worse but this is what's out there now.
I'm not an expert on the permitting system, but have been getting permits since HPD was in the old Sears building.   

Let's not forget about the people red flagged by Kaiser for visits that aren't disqualifying.  The blame goes to both.  I've also noticed that a lot of people who work for Kaiser become die hard Kaiser fans.  It's a job not a sports team

Kaiser didn't "Red Flag" anybody. They simply provided the information to HPD. They are required to do this by law, especially if the information is in regards to the persons "mental state".

The fact that someone had counseling for grief, anger issues or even bedwetting when they were 7 can be construed to have had an effect on their mental state.

Any determination was made by HPD in light of the information they received.

We all know that most of this stuff is BS, especially if it occurred when they were children, but I expect we'll see more of it in the coming years as people were caught up the "psychobabble" craze of the last 20 years or so. Where any time you "felt" something, everyone thought it was best if they sought out psychiatric care or counseling of one kind or another.

As far as the government is concerned, we're all crazy. Except when they need money or votes.......

Okay, I just contacted HPD Firearms Division this morning regarding the situation about "Kaiser-gate" (see what I did there ) and there is no longer an issue with it. You can go down and apply for a gun permit...so I'll see all you 2AHawaii members down there later today LOL!!! Good luck and Happy Holidays all!! 

Can you elaborate on this?  What do you mean this is no longer an issue?