Another mass shooting in California. (Read 57103 times)

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #120 on: December 13, 2015, 12:01:28 PM »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #121 on: December 13, 2015, 11:22:13 PM »
You're posts not objective.

Objectivity is based on facts, while subjectivity is based on opinion.

The facts proved that the assault weapons ban did not work, yet you are making excuses as to how it didn't have enough time, which is your opinion.

I agree, the assault weapons ban did not work. The question that is relevant is why. As long as we fail to address or prove the why part of if then it continues to be a double edged sword.

If you take a medicine for an ailment and you see no effect, do you automatically know that it means the medicine is worthless? Or do you then also have consider dose, conflicts with other medicines, diet, etc?

Heavies

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #122 on: December 15, 2015, 05:45:36 PM »
I agree, the assault weapons ban did not work. The question that is relevant is why. As long as we fail to address or prove the why part of if then it continues to be a double edged sword.

If you take a medicine for an ailment and you see no effect, do you automatically know that it means the medicine is worthless? Or do you then also have consider dose, conflicts with other medicines, diet, etc?

Question. Do you take a medication that has no bearing nor use what so ever on a certain type of identified ailment, and then expect it to do anything to cure said ailment?

Ie...  Would you take pepto bismol for a headache?

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #123 on: December 15, 2015, 05:59:27 PM »
I agree, the assault weapons ban did not work. The question that is relevant is why. As long as we fail to address or prove the why part of if then it continues to be a double edged sword.

If you take a medicine for an ailment and you see no effect, do you automatically know that it means the medicine is worthless? Or do you then also have consider dose, conflicts with other medicines, diet, etc?

No!  No!  No!

People in favor of the ban have no interest in it working.  They have one goal:  ban guns.  As many as possible now, and all of them eventually.

They no more want to identify why the ban was ineffective as you have of doing your own research when it's easier to post questions and wait for others to feed you the answers.

The truth is also something they do not want to hear.  They banned a type/class of weapon used in maybe 1% of all crimes.  They chose this type for one reason:  the AR-15 is the most widely owned rifle in the US.  Ban it, you ban a huge number of rifles at once!

Criminals don't use an AR-15 often, and when they do, it's mostly because that's what they happen to own!  Ban that gun, and they will use a shotgun or handgun or Mosin-Nagant, because that's what they have or can get hold of!

They did not ban hate, evil, mental illness, psychological problems or alcoholic drinks & hallucinogenic drugs.  The guns are incidental to the acts.  Take away one means, the person will choose another.

Studying why is not necessary when you already know the cure was never meant to address any real problem. 

Agendas are like that.  When all you have is a hammer, every problem resembles a nail.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 11:10:08 PM by mauidog »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #124 on: December 17, 2015, 05:32:26 PM »
People in favor of the ban have no interest in it working.  They have one goal:  ban guns.  As many as possible now, and all of them eventually.

Do please tell me how you somehow know the secret real intentions of all of those who voted for the AWB and are able to speak for all of them.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #125 on: December 17, 2015, 05:35:03 PM »
Question. Do you take a medication that has no bearing nor use what so ever on a certain type of identified ailment, and then expect it to do anything to cure said ailment?

Ie...  Would you take pepto bismol for a headache?

I don't want to get into an analogy nitpicking war but I suppose I could alter my analogy slightly to better fit the situation.
So you have a condition and the doctor gives you a medication that does not work because it does not actually target the condition. Do you then come to the conclusion that no medication will ever work?

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #126 on: December 17, 2015, 05:39:09 PM »
Do please tell me how you somehow know the secret real intentions of all of those who voted for the AWB and are able to speak for all of them.

It's never been a secret.  There are plenty of examples of Obama and Hillary saying the same, but here's a quote specifically talking about the assault weapons ban of 1994 ...

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #127 on: December 17, 2015, 05:43:33 PM »
Do please tell me how you somehow know the secret real intentions of all of those who voted for the AWB and are able to speak for all of them.

Quote
"Despite his assurance to Fox News that he understands the Second Amendment, it's a good bet that the positions Obama took on guns during his time at Chicago reveal his true convictions."

The chapter documents the actions that Obama has taken on guns, citing the following:

    In 1996, Obama supported a ban on handguns
    In 1998, he supported a ban on the sale of all semi-automatic guns
    In 2004, he advocated banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park, which would have shut down nearly all gun stores

Quote
In Chapter Three, Mr. Lott discusses gun-control and takes the reader back to his time at the University of Chicago, where he and then-professor Barack Obama spoke on numerous occasions about guns in America.

"I don't believe people should be able to own guns," Obama told Lott one day at the University of Chicago Law School.

Lott explains that he first met Obama shortly after completing his research on concealed handgun laws and crime.

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/author-quotes-then-professor-obama-saying-i-dont-believe-people-should
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #128 on: December 17, 2015, 05:47:47 PM »
Do please tell me how you somehow know the secret real intentions of all of those who voted for the AWB and are able to speak for all of them.

Quote
It's "worth considering" whether the United States should emulate Australia by instituting a national gun buyback program,
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said Friday at a town hall in New Hampshire.

A man in the audience asked Clinton whether she thought it would be possible for the U.S. to enact such a program, and if
not, why. Gun buybacks have happened at the metropolitan level in the U.S., but any effort at the national level would be sure
to run into intense political opposition.

Clinton, for her part, seemed open to the idea.

"Australia is a good example, Canada is a good example, the U.K. is a good example. Why? Because each of them have
had mass killings" she said. "Australia had a huge mass killing about 20, 25 years ago, Canada did as well, so did the
U.K. And, in reaction, they passed much stricter gun laws."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-gun-buybacks_56216331e4b02f6a900c5d67





The "Australian Gun Buy-Back" was not a voluntary program.  It was mandatory confiscation, for which the government provided partial compensation for the value of the gun/s surrendered.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #129 on: December 17, 2015, 05:51:47 PM »
It's never been a secret.  There are plenty of examples of Obama and Hillary saying the same, but here's a quote specifically talking about the assault weapons ban of 1994 ...


I didn't ask for anecdotes, I asked for proof that you spoke for them all. No one doubts that there are those who want any and all guns banished but you are creating a false dichotomy. It is not a black and white situation where anyone who supports some gun control is therefore in favor of absolute bans on all guns.

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #130 on: December 17, 2015, 05:53:24 PM »
I didn't ask for anecdotes, I asked for proof that you spoke for them all. No one doubts that there are those who want any and all guns banished but you are creating a false dichotomy. It is not a black and white situation where anyone who supports some gun control is therefore in favor of absolute bans on all guns.

That's HILARIOUS, considering you seem to speak for ALL ANTI-GUN SUPPORTERS and how they feel and think!!


 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Inspector

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #131 on: December 17, 2015, 06:32:37 PM »
Do please tell me how you somehow know the secret real intentions of all of those who voted for the AWB and are able to speak for all of them.
Do you know the NY Times? Arguably the most liberal rag on the planet. Here is an interesting article admitting the lies of the left and the role the media played in it all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?_r=0

SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Heavies

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #132 on: December 17, 2015, 07:39:42 PM »
I don't want to get into an analogy nitpicking war but I suppose I could alter my analogy slightly to better fit the situation.
So you have a condition and the doctor gives you a medication that does not work because it does not actually target the condition. Do you then come to the conclusion that no medication will ever work?
Don't think it is nitpicking at all.  If the doctor has misdiagnosed the condition, the medication given to treat the misdiagnosed condition will not work. 

It is a proven fact, even by left hand studies, that "ass alt weapons" are NOT a significant threat to society.   So, the condition is misdiagnosed, therefore, the medication(Ass alt bans) will not work, no matter how much dosage is applied. 

Question why it has been purposefully and obviously misdiagnosed? Reason, they don't care if their cure works, they just want that chip chip chip of your rights, eventually they will reach the goal of total confiscation, all the while, the condition is never cured, because the condition stated is NOT the problem that needs curing.

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2015, 07:49:29 PM »
Don't think it is nitpicking at all.  If the doctor has misdiagnosed the condition, the medication given to treat the misdiagnosed condition will not work. 

It is a proven fact, even by left hand studies, that "ass alt weapons" are NOT a significant threat to society.   So, the condition is misdiagnosed, therefore, the medication(Ass alt bans) will not work, no matter how much dosage is applied. 

Question why it has been purposefully and obviously misdiagnosed? Reason, they don't care if their cure works, they just want that chip chip chip of your rights, eventually they will reach the goal of total confiscation, all the while, the condition is never cured, because the condition stated is NOT the problem that needs curing.


ED ZACHARY!!

The first step in finding any solution is to properly define the problem.  Seems like such an easy, common sense step. 

When the problem is always stated to be "There are too many guns", the only obvious solution is "We need to get rid of the guns."

The real problems are much more difficult to solve, so they prefer to push an agenda over any real solutions.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2015, 03:03:31 AM »
That's HILARIOUS, considering you seem to speak for ALL ANTI-GUN SUPPORTERS and how they feel and think!!


 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:

I never claimed to speak for all of any side. I advocate objectivity. Your narrow view of your opponent will only sabotage your efforts. Your are being no different than the anti-gunners who think that all second amendment supporters believe convicted felons should be allowed to own nukes.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #135 on: December 18, 2015, 03:05:03 AM »
Do you know the NY Times? Arguably the most liberal rag on the planet. Here is an interesting article admitting the lies of the left and the role the media played in it all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?_r=0

I thought the Huffington Post was the worst  >:D

But good on the NYT for reporting this.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2015, 03:18:45 AM »
Don't think it is nitpicking at all.  If the doctor has misdiagnosed the condition, the medication given to treat the misdiagnosed condition will not work. 

It is a proven fact, even by left hand studies, that "ass alt weapons" are NOT a significant threat to society.   So, the condition is misdiagnosed, therefore, the medication(Ass alt bans) will not work, no matter how much dosage is applied. 

Question why it has been purposefully and obviously misdiagnosed? Reason, they don't care if their cure works, they just want that chip chip chip of your rights, eventually they will reach the goal of total confiscation, all the while, the condition is never cured, because the condition stated is NOT the problem that needs curing.

Using the analogy, I am in agreement that clearly there was a misdiagnoses. but that misdiagnoses does not rule out any and all medications as there could theoretically be a medication that would work.

My personal suspicion is that they would prefer to get handguns banned but that they didn't think they would get enough support.
But I do consider it very plausible that someone who wrote the bill had no idea on the statistics involving gun crimes vs gun types and wrote the law out or ignorance. (as opposed to the chip chip chip theory)

I have no doubt that some want all guns banned by any means possible, but what I am looking at is the logical reasoning and scientific method involved in using studies to prove or disprove certain conclusions. I want to soundly defeat their arguments but to do this I must also admit and address weaknesses in my own arguments. Hence my mention of the double edged sword.
If they wanted to implement the same ban again I think we have a decent argument against it. But if they wanted to submit a different type of ban, I don't think the failure of the AWB is some sort of trump card against any and all newly proposed legislation.

mauidog

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #137 on: December 18, 2015, 09:29:42 AM »
Using the analogy, I am in agreement that clearly there was a misdiagnoses. but that misdiagnoses does not rule out any and all medications as there could theoretically be a medication that would work.

My personal suspicion is that they would prefer to get handguns banned but that they didn't think they would get enough support.
But I do consider it very plausible that someone who wrote the bill had no idea on the statistics involving gun crimes vs gun types and wrote the law out or ignorance. (as opposed to the chip chip chip theory)

I have no doubt that some want all guns banned by any means possible, but what I am looking at is the logical reasoning and scientific method involved in using studies to prove or disprove certain conclusions. I want to soundly defeat their arguments but to do this I must also admit and address weaknesses in my own arguments. Hence my mention of the double edged sword.
If they wanted to implement the same ban again I think we have a decent argument against it. But if they wanted to submit a different type of ban, I don't think the failure of the AWB is some sort of trump card against any and all newly proposed legislation.

We got us a dad-gum genius here!

From the NYT article you supposedly just read:

Quote
Handguns were used in more than 80 percent of gun murders each year, but gun control advocates
had failed to interest enough of the public in a handgun ban. Handguns were the weapons most likely to
kill you, but they were associated by the public with self-defense. (In 2008, the Supreme Court said there
was a constitutional right to keep a loaded handgun at home for self-defense.)

 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another mass shooting in California.
« Reply #138 on: December 19, 2015, 01:43:13 AM »
We got us a dad-gum genius here!

From the NYT article you supposedly just read:

 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:

I have mentioned the handgun issue prior to you posting the article, so your trolling sarcasm is unnecessary.