ok, now donald trump hit closer to home (Read 48708 times)

mauidog

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2015, 11:12:10 PM »
If the constitution is indeed a binding contract between the US government and the people, where is your signature on it?

It appears you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for your arguments!!   :rofl:

My representatives signed it, for the most part long before I was born.

The contract is in the document.  Do as I wish, or I will use my rights to petition the government and change representatives to the best of my ability.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2015, 11:12:41 PM »
If it quacks like a duck ...

I'm not calling you personally anything.  I'm characterizing the debate and argument tactics you are using, as they happen to be very close to those the Left use when they have nothing with which to back up their points besides false premises, labeling and insults.

just like you said, if it quacks like a duck

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2015, 11:14:11 PM »
It appears you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for your arguments!!   :rofl:

My representatives signed it, for the most part long before I was born.

The contract is in the document.  Do as I wish, or I will use my rights to petition the government and change representatives to the best of my ability.

you can consent to contracts before you were born? that's a serious assumption.
what of the millions of people that did not for for their representatives? the millions that can't vote? the millions that don't vote?

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2015, 11:15:27 PM »
i caution you on relying on the tyranny of the majority as evidence of greatness.

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2015, 11:25:07 PM »
I would also like to point out that the constitution is not a founding document to the nation, it was the second framework to the United States for a basis of federal government and it's powers(not rights).

The true founding document of the United States is the Declaration of Independence, which lays out a much better limitation on the powers(not rights) of government.

Conveniently for the United States government there is no requirement for it to follow the principles laid out within the Declaration of Independence.

mauidog

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2015, 11:39:06 PM »
you can consent to contracts before you were born? that's a serious assumption.
what of the millions of people that did not for for their representatives? the millions that can't vote? the millions that don't vote?

Do you only follow laws which were enacted during your lifetime, and only after you reached that age of majority?

No?  Why would you be held legally bound to laws passed without a legislative representative agreeing to the laws on your behalf?  You should be able to just ignore all the laws you don't agree with if they were created before you had representation, I guess.   :rofl:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

causa mortis

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2015, 11:41:39 PM »
Aegis, are you a Murray Rothbard disciple?

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2015, 11:47:35 PM »
Do you only follow laws which were enacted during your lifetime, and only after you reached that age of majority?

No?  Why would you be held legally bound to laws passed without a legislative representative agreeing to the laws on your behalf?  You should be able to just ignore all the laws you don't agree with if they were created before you had representation, I guess.   :rofl:

we probably should.
The only reason i follow laws i haven't agreed to is because i want to. the laws i don't like i don't follow.

The questions that you should be asking are, how many laws do you break each day even though you never agreed to them in the first place? how many laws are there that you don't even know about? How many laws have been created in direct violation of the contract that government is supposedly bound to follow? What happens when the government breaks the contract? What happens when you break the contract that you signed before you were born?

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2015, 11:48:54 PM »
Aegis, are you a Murray Rothbard disciple?

I agree with some of his positions.

mauidog

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2015, 11:50:07 PM »
we probably should.
The only reason i follow laws i haven't agreed to is because i want to. the laws i don't like i don't follow.

The questions that you should be asking are, how many laws do you break each day even though you never agreed to them in the first place? how many laws are there that you don't even know about? How many laws have been created in direct violation of the contract that government is supposedly bound to follow? What happens when the government breaks the contract? What happens when you break the contract that you signed before you were born?

I'm done.  You have taken this thread about as far off topic as anything I've ever seen!

Good night!   :sleeping:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2015, 11:53:00 PM »
I'm done.  You have taken this thread about as far off topic as anything I've ever seen!

Good night!   :sleeping:

i wasn't the one basing my position off the constitutionality of certain actions by the government.

good night though

Q

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2015, 01:04:17 AM »
The only reason i follow laws i haven't agreed to is because i want to. the laws i don't like i don't follow.

eyeeatingfish

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2015, 04:24:07 AM »
The current issue involves Syrian refugees.

They might be Muslims, but they are also from a country as you like to point out.  Denying entry to all Syrians, with some exceptions, would be Constitutional and well advised.  We are involved in an armed conflict with Syrians.  Permitting Syrians into the country without the means to properly vet them would be foolish and ill advised.

Again, apples and oranges. You are talking about Syrians and for the most part I think I would agree with you there, but the comment by Trump was about denying entry to Muslims, not Syrians.

eyeeatingfish

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2015, 04:35:49 AM »
To the posters saying Trump's suggestion is unconstitutional: I suggest you reread the constitution, because his proposal does NOT violate it.

There are Supreme Court rulings, Fiallo v. Bell and Kleindiest v. Mandel, which proves the point. Also, let's not forget the Immigration and Nationality Act, which grants the President the ability to suspend entry of aliens he deems detrimental to the interests of our society.

Is his proposal a bit much? Perhaps. But it doesn't violate our ruling document. So, instead of spewing leftist talking points about unconstitutionality, maybe you need to research the topic more thoroughly.

Lastly, there is no right for ANYONE to immigrate here. It is a privilege that we, as a people, grant to foreigners. You have to allow strangers into your homes, right? Same applies here.

I am going to have to read up on the court case and the law in question for some more context, but I am not sure if your reasoning stands, and I will explain why.

At stores or restaurants you might have seen the sign that says a restaurant reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. It does hold true according to law that a restaurant owner can refuse service to anyone, however other laws we have dictate that the refusal of service cannot be based on certain traits (protected classes). A restaurant cannot deny service to an individual because the individual is black for example even though they legally have the right to refuse service to anyone.

On top of that, even though people wishing to immigrate do not have all the rights of citizens I think the point can be made that we as the leaders of the free world and protector of freedoms also practice what we preach. That doesn't mean we just let everyone in, but it does mean having a better, more just screening method than simply whether a person is muslim or not. 

aieahound

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2015, 09:51:18 AM »
That "200 year old piece of paper" is what the greatest nation the world has ever seen is founded on.

Amen brother Ed !

That said.....
Wasn't this country based in part on freedom of religion ?

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin

mauidog

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2015, 10:13:24 AM »
Amen brother Ed !

That said.....
Wasn't this country based in part on freedom of religion ?

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin

Quote
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.
That 3 word phrase, "freedom of religion", has been re-interpreted and warped into so many definitions including freedom FROM religion, that it no longer means what it did when the country was founded.  The founders actually called it "separation of church and state."  As stated:  "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

In England, you had to belong to, and worship under, the state-approved Church of England if you expected to ever hold public office.  This was the cornerstone of the religious freedom concept.  As more colonists arrived, the number of religions and sects began to increase.  That is when it was decided people have an individual right to worship however they choose. 

Three words, freedom of religion, will never express the founding principles in a way that truly captures the intent.


An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2015, 10:16:26 AM »
My bad.....how about 5 words.....

The free exercise of religion.

Didn't know you needed the extra words.  Kinda thought they meant the same thing.
"
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Doesn't say anything about holding office or public trust

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 10:31:35 AM by aieahound »

survivorman

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2015, 10:46:39 AM »
When exercising your religion involves killing people the situation warrants a closer look.

Aegis808

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2015, 10:58:47 AM »
When exercising your religion involves killing people the situation warrants a closer look.

better kick out all the christians for the bombing of abortions clinics, mass genocide in africa, and the IRA jus to name a few.

aieahound

Re: ok, now donald trump hit closer to home
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2015, 11:07:45 AM »
Quote from news review
https://www.newsreview.com/reno/christian-terrorism/content?oid=19285006

Rev. Paul Jennings Hill killed an abortion provider and his bodyguard.
 The Dylann Roof murders at an African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston,
Klansman Frazier Glenn Cross’s killings of several Kansas Jews,
 Scott Roeder’s murder of a Kansas abortion provider,
Wade Michael Page’s massacre at a Wisconsin Sikh temple,
it goes on and on. One wonders whether Muslims in other nations can help but consider the United States and its Christians to be a murderous people. Should we, given our history of violence, be described by a term like “Christian terrorism”?

But I agree with this 100%
As far as "sweeping generalizations", look at a world map. Thailand, Indonesia, Africa, Europe and of course the ME, all embroiled in violence due to Islam.

You WANT to bring that shit here


And yet...
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
―  Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 11:22:30 AM by aieahound »