Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket. (Read 28632 times)

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2016, 03:54:06 PM »
my apologies for not knowing that the speed limit on the H1 was 65 mph.  I was under the impression that the highest limit on the h1 was 60 mph.

dustoff003

Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2016, 05:38:34 PM »
Asinapple, I was on the 65mph highway ( I forget the name) going 65... The 65mph highway from or to kapolei.
you mean the Waianae Autobahn?
Lol, if that's what they call it. But, I was doing the speed limit exactly, I remember double checking.

No more 65 mph. The speed limit west of Kunia/Ft. Weaver Rd. is 60 mph until around the Campbell Industrial exit going Diamond Head is opposite.

The 60 mile per hour zone mentioned above and the 60 mph zone on the H3 are the fastest posted speed limits on Oahu.

mauidog

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2016, 05:47:43 PM »
No more 65 mph. The speed limit west of Kunia/Ft. Weaver Rd. is 60 mph until around the Campbell Industrial exit going Diamond Head is opposite.

The 60 mile per hour zone mentioned above and the 60 mph zone on the H3 are the fastest posted speed limits on Oahu.

Neither driver was cited for speeding.  Even if he admits to doing 65 in a 60, the case was dismissed with prejudice.  The court is barred from retrying that case.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2016, 06:26:27 PM »
Neither driver was cited for speeding.  Even if he admits to doing 65 in a 60, the case was dismissed with prejudice.  The court is barred from retrying that case.

Although it might be true that the court can't retry him for reckless and racing, there may be other charges that could stem from the same set of facts.  No offense, but a dismissal with prejudice isn't as absolute as you make it seem.

although an entirely different charge on the same set of facts might be legally possible, whether a prosecutor will actually pursue this in reality is an entirely different question.  regardless, i would err on the side of conservative on this one.

monster796

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2016, 07:07:38 PM »
The speed limit was 65 before I left, when did it change? Well, whatever the speedlimit was at the time I was doing that, I set my cruise control.

As far as other sorcery, police always say that they cannot charge unless they personally whitnessed the crime taking place. That is exactly what they say. A woman was applying makeup and driving, and almost hit me months ago, I showed the cop the video and he said they cannot be charged unless they witnesses it taking place, some law I believe he said...

dustoff003

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2016, 07:55:20 PM »

The speed limit was 65 before I left, when did it change? Well, whatever the speedlimit was at the time I was doing that, I set my cruise control.

I think your mistaken the speed limit has not been 65 mph in that area or any other on Oahu.

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2016, 08:33:38 PM »

The speed limit was 65 before I left, when did it change? Well, whatever the speedlimit was at the time I was doing that, I set my cruise control.

As far as other sorcery, police always say that they cannot charge unless they personally whitnessed the crime taking place. That is exactly what they say. A woman was applying makeup and driving, and almost hit me months ago, I showed the cop the video and he said they cannot be charged unless they witnesses it taking place, some law I believe he said...

Well I don't want to argue with you. I'm only here to help.

Logically your assertion about police personally witnessing a crime as a prerequisite for a criminal charge does not really work. It would be an interesting world if that were the case, but murderers rarely kill others in the presence of the police. Obviously there is a big difference between murder and traffic crimes/infractions, but the homicide example is exaggeration to prove a point.

My guess is that the police officer that you showed the video to couldn't establish the requisite reasonable suspicion or probable cause to take action--either that or he was just being lazy.

As a side note, I don't think I've ever seen the "cruise control" argument work. If I were the prosecution, I'd argue that deliberately setting your cruise control above the speed limit is, in some sense, worse. It would be a much better argument to say that you normally drive below the posted limit and your foot unknowingly pressed the pedal a little harder causing you to go above the limit for a brief moment.

Anyway, I don't want this post to come across as argumentative. I would rather you err on the side of caution instead of possibly putting yourself in a predicament that you might eventually regret. Just remember that, as it stands, you're off the hook. Your case was dismissed and will probably not be retried. You're in a good place and I sincerely hope that it remains that way.

SpeedTek

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Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2016, 10:43:54 AM »
I got the same tickets before and I wasn't racing no one.  I fought it also.   Cops lied in court like a bunch of clowns.  I was driving a stock 67 VW bug.  And the cop said when the light turned green he saw so much smoke from my tires he could not see the car.  And then said my car moved so fast that he had to go down the street 100 mph to catch me. He was so dramatic.  Luckily the judge knew me and the car.  After the trial was almost done the judge pulled the cop in front of the bench and told him if he ever lied in his court again he would be reprimanded.   I was laughing.
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monster796

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2016, 11:45:58 AM »
Wow. I am surprised the cop kept his job.

stangzilla

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2016, 11:52:02 AM »
the old speeding grants
make enough tickets, win federal grant money.   :geekdanc:

GZire

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2016, 12:42:56 PM »
Well I don't want to argue with you. I'm only here to help.

Logically your assertion about police personally witnessing a crime as a prerequisite for a criminal charge does not really work. It would be an interesting world if that were the case, but murderers rarely kill others in the presence of the police. Obviously there is a big difference between murder and traffic crimes/infractions, but the homicide example is exaggeration to prove a point.

My guess is that the police officer that you showed the video to couldn't establish the requisite reasonable suspicion or probable cause to take action--either that or he was just being lazy.

As a side note, I don't think I've ever seen the "cruise control" argument work. If I were the prosecution, I'd argue that deliberately setting your cruise control above the speed limit is, in some sense, worse. It would be a much better argument to say that you normally drive below the posted limit and your foot unknowingly pressed the pedal a little harder causing you to go above the limit for a brief moment.

Anyway, I don't want this post to come across as argumentative. I would rather you err on the side of caution instead of possibly putting yourself in a predicament that you might eventually regret. Just remember that, as it stands, you're off the hook. Your case was dismissed and will probably not be retried. You're in a good place and I sincerely hope that it remains that way.


I set my cruise control at the flow of the traffic around me.  Sometimes driving slower than the prevailing traffic can lead to more dangerous situations.

Also be aware that speed on you car is typically based off the drive wheels.  Sometimes the overall dimensions of the wheels differ from oem and you can have a several mph difference from oem equipment or even tires of the same size, but different manufacturers.

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2016, 12:58:28 PM »

I set my cruise control at the flow of the traffic around me.  Sometimes driving slower than the prevailing traffic can lead to more dangerous situations.

Also be aware that speed on you car is typically based off the drive wheels.  Sometimes the overall dimensions of the wheels differ from oem and you can have a several mph difference from oem equipment or even tires of the same size, but different manufacturers.

While it is true that driving slower than traffic can lead to more dangerous situations, it is still a violation to drive above the speed limit.  I've definitely heard motorists make this version of the cruise control argument in court and i haven't seen it work.  HRS 291C-102 is pretty clear and unambiguous and leaves no room for a "keeping up with traffic" affirmative defense.

also keep in mind that using that argument is an affirmative defense, which means that you're admitting to being in violation.  I'm not sure if that's a good idea, especially if you're trying to argue that you weren't speeding.

j10nke

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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 07:59:18 AM »
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 10:47:43 AM by j10nke »

mauidog

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 09:24:36 AM »
Regardless 65 or 60 that's only 5 over.  most cops speed by me while going 5 over.  If I were to get ticketed for 5 over on the freeway I'd probably laugh.  I think it's awesome you are going out of your way to help.

Most courts will dismiss any ticket that is only 5 miles or less over the limit.  There's at least a 3 MPH error margin for most laser/radar devices, and most judges would be reluctant to trust the speed measurement unless the driver admits he was going that fast.

The Cop might stop you to check for other infractions (license, registration, safety check, kilo of coke on the front seat ...), but they will probably just issue a verbal warning for the speeding alone.

Just my experience. 
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 09:34:31 AM »
Most courts will dismiss any ticket that is only 5 miles or less over the limit.  There's at least a 3 MPH error margin for most laser/radar devices, and most judges would be reluctant to trust the speed measurement unless the driver admits he was going that fast.

The Cop might stop you to check for other infractions (license, registration, safety check, kilo of coke on the front seat ...), but they will probably just issue a verbal warning for the speeding alone.

Just my experience.

i agree with mauidog on this one and i'd like to add to this.  Although it's true that a court will probably dismiss the ticket, i would rather not have to take off from work just to appear in court and end up wasting a whole half day.  also regarding the police officer stopping someone for only 5 mph over, i would rather not give officers any reason to stop me in the first place.  it's not that i have something to hide, but more like my time is precious and i could be doing better things than being pulled over.

GZire

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 11:15:41 AM »
While it is true that driving slower than traffic can lead to more dangerous situations, it is still a violation to drive above the speed limit.  I've definitely heard motorists make this version of the cruise control argument in court and i haven't seen it work.  HRS 291C-102 is pretty clear and unambiguous and leaves no room for a "keeping up with traffic" affirmative defense.

also keep in mind that using that argument is an affirmative defense, which means that you're admitting to being in violation.  I'm not sure if that's a good idea, especially if you're trying to argue that you weren't speeding.


I say that because my background is in Civil Engineering.  What the general public does not know is that the 85th percentile rule is used to determine speed limits in many cases.  So the argument that speeding is dangerous is actually false in many cases.  Mostly it's because some engineer got overruled by a politician.  Is it against the law?  Yes, but not unsafe and that would be my argument.

Also if you're only talking 5 mph or so it is something that could easily be explained by different tire choices.  Understanding how your speedo works is important too.

GZire

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 11:22:20 AM »
Most courts will dismiss any ticket that is only 5 miles or less over the limit.  There's at least a 3 MPH error margin for most laser/radar devices, and most judges would be reluctant to trust the speed measurement unless the driver admits he was going that fast.

The Cop might stop you to check for other infractions (license, registration, safety check, kilo of coke on the front seat ...), but they will probably just issue a verbal warning for the speeding alone.

Just my experience.


I seriously doubt the radar/laser is off by 3 mph.  Those devices are probably significantly more accurate than the speedometer in your car,

The speedo in your car is linked to the rpms of your drive wheels.  The rpms is linked to the OD of the tire.  In some cases the speedo "gearing" may not be perfectly linked to the tire diameter..........for example say Toyota uses a certain "gear" it would be cheaper for their suppliers to manufacture only certain "gears."  Meanwhile the tire manufacturers have different ODs (outside diameters) for their tires..........so Pirelli, Michelin, Firestone may all produce a 205/55 R15 tire but they might all have different outside diameters.  This means the same sized tire from different manufacturers will have different speeds at the same rpms of the drive wheels.  Throw in the fact that the tire wears and even the same rpms of the same tire will have different actually speeds depending on how much wear the tire has. 

This is the reason why the courts typically throw out tickets at +5 mph or less.  Simply speaking the speedos do not record the actual speed of the car accurately most of the time.

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 12:36:17 PM »

I say that because my background is in Civil Engineering.  What the general public does not know is that the 85th percentile rule is used to determine speed limits in many cases.  So the argument that speeding is dangerous is actually false in many cases.  Mostly it's because some engineer got overruled by a politician.  Is it against the law?  Yes, but not unsafe and that would be my argument.

Also if you're only talking 5 mph or so it is something that could easily be explained by different tire choices.  Understanding how your speedo works is important too.

i understand what you're trying to say here, but i think the "safety" argument is kind of unwarranted in court.  it would be an entirely different story if we're talking about a 291C-101, the basic speed rule violation.

the point i was trying to make was that most motorists don't realize that affirmative defenses aren't very helpful in normal speeding cases.  the law clearly states that if you're over the limit, you're in violation.  you could try to justify yourself to the court, but ultimately you're still in violation.



I seriously doubt the radar/laser is off by 3 mph.  Those devices are probably significantly more accurate than the speedometer in your car,

The speedo in your car is linked to the rpms of your drive wheels.  The rpms is linked to the OD of the tire.  In some cases the speedo "gearing" may not be perfectly linked to the tire diameter..........for example say Toyota uses a certain "gear" it would be cheaper for their suppliers to manufacture only certain "gears."  Meanwhile the tire manufacturers have different ODs (outside diameters) for their tires..........so Pirelli, Michelin, Firestone may all produce a 205/55 R15 tire but they might all have different outside diameters.  This means the same sized tire from different manufacturers will have different speeds at the same rpms of the drive wheels.  Throw in the fact that the tire wears and even the same rpms of the same tire will have different actually speeds depending on how much wear the tire has. 

This is the reason why the courts typically throw out tickets at +5 mph or less.  Simply speaking the speedos do not record the actual speed of the car accurately most of the time.

although the radar and laser devices themselves probably aren't off, they can give severely inaccurate readings if used improperly, and those variances can be significantly more than 3 mph.  regardless, this issue is somewhat off topic.

and in response to the issue you raised about the speedometers the issue has already been addressed on multiple occasions by the appellate courts (for a recent decision, see State v. Fitzwater, 277 P.3d 520 (2010)).  the law doesn't care whether your speedometer was reading accurately or not.  what does matter is whether you were traveling faster than the posted speed limit.  If i were a prosecutor, i would argue that, if the motorist knew that there was a certain amount of variance in the output reading of the speedometer and the car's actual speed, then shouldn't the motorist have known to drive much slower than the limit so that the inaccuracies would not become a detriment later?

again, i'm not trying to argue whether the law should be this or that.  I'm merely pointing out that the law is unambiguous and, because of that fact, it is difficult to prevail on certain arguments in court.

Bcspy

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2016, 12:52:49 PM »
When I changed the gears in my speed cars. My speedo was off about 10 mph. Had a shop in Waipahu to re cal but closed now. Ladar is accurate, before use, user must do status cal check. Someone should get a ticket if going 10 over. Drive safe, might be my family on the road. If I was to get a speed ticket, I would ask nicely to see the Ladar violation speed, po don't have to show to you.

asinapple8805

Re: Racing on Highway and reckless driving ticket.
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2016, 12:55:32 PM »
When I changed the gears in my speed cars. My speedo was off about 10 mph. Had a shop in Waipahu to re cal but closed now. Ladar is accurate, before use, user must do status cal check. Someone should get a ticket if going 10 over. Drive safe, might be my family on the road. If I was to get a speed ticket, I would ask nicely to see the Ladar violation speed, po don't have to show to you.

different cars pull speed from different places.  my bmw pulls the speed off a reluctor ring in my diff.  the camaro t56 i have has a sensor mounted near the output shaft.