first AR build (Read 11559 times)

stangzilla

Re: first AR build
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2017, 05:43:05 AM »
I got the c products mags in the mail
The front part of the mag is cut lower than the asc mags and pushing out the last round with my thumb is easier than the asc bc the last round sits higher in the c products mag
I'll add some pics later of how it looks

I ordered more cp mags in 20 and 28 rounds from the same place, North river distributor llc
They have a lot of other caliber cp mags also
www.northriverllc.com

drck1000

Re: first AR build
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2017, 06:00:04 AM »
An answer to my own question

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-15-and-corrosive-ammo.588983/

I always thought it'd be a PITA. I'm OCD so I'd take forever cleaning it.
How often are you seeing corrosive 7.62x39 locally? I shoot only steel in my AK and I'm all for cheap ammo. Just haven't seen corrosive stuff in a while. I'll see some corrosive 7.62x54r offered here and there. Last time I saw corrosive 7.62x39, I think it was Herters, was a while ago. That said, I don't really look for AK ammo that often, so maybe I just never noticed.


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aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2017, 01:45:39 PM »
To be honest I only been shooting brass 7.62x39. I do have a few boxes of wolf and red army standard that were given to me as gifts but haven't used it.

I just treat all berdan primed stuff as corrosive. If you check forums like I have for reviewes.. even that WPA classic some have corrosive salts. Red army too. I think Geco is gtg since its boxer prime. That's what others in mainland said. Every once in a while they'll come across a box that's corrosive even when it's printed non corrosive. And their other box isn't corrosive.

Also I stay away from lacquer ammo. Apparently it gums up the ar15 chamber . My friend in the mainland (moved to Vegas) had ejecting problems after using 223. I believe it was wolf. So it's safe to assume that'll happen with x39 ammo in our x39 ar's. I just don't want to deal with the extra cleaning. Lastly, steel is much harder on the bolts for x39 ar15. Back in the day they made the bolts by milling out a 5.56. Now it's hardened after it's been milled out. Or however they are produced. Plus with advancements in steel types as well as special coatings .. Nickel boron (what I have) and nitride. The failure rate has dropped I think . I myself bought lmt bolts . 193 fucking dollars for one. And that's just a bolt with gas rings. No carrier. Made out of aermet 100 steel. Same as landing gears of f18 fighter jets. Suppose to be the best and prob the most expensive . Last I seen they were 242 a piece.

Lastly. I can reload my x39 ammo at my friends house. Just bring my own supplies. But can use his powder lol.

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2017, 01:47:36 PM »
I'm for cheap ammo too. But easier for me to stock up on one type of ammo. So I just work overtime a lot. Lol. In my ak47 I wouldn't mind corrosive . But the ar is a diff story for me

drck1000

Re: first AR build
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2017, 02:00:20 PM »
I'm for cheap ammo too. But easier for me to stock up on one type of ammo. So I just work overtime a lot. Lol. In my ak47 I wouldn't mind corrosive . But the ar is a diff story for me
Just curious, but can you explain more about that thinking?  Genuinely interested. 

I'm very much an AR guy and pretty much shoot just brass there.  I own two AKs, but don't shoot them much, but am hoping to shoot them more soon as I get them set up how I want.  I have a bunch of Wolf (I think) and I've shot some ____ Bear stuff.  I think it was Silver Bear, but I forget.  I also bought an AK recently with a bunch of Norinco (Chinese I believe) ammo, that I recall the box stating non-corrosive.   I'll have to check when I get home now that it's on my mind from discussion here.

Sorry OP.  I'll start a new thread if this is going too far off the rails. . .  :(

stangzilla

Re: first AR build
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2017, 03:25:19 PM »
No problem.
I don't think we are going off subject. Well maybe but I don't mind.
The more info the better.
I'm always willing to learn if others want to share their knowledge and experience.   :shaka:

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2017, 04:29:00 PM »
I guess you could say the hardest part of cleaning an ak is the gas tube. But since it's so big cause it fits a piston it's fairly easy to clean. Most gas that's dispersed is in front of chamber. Maybe some on bolt. Large tolerance parts vs ar15 small tolerance parts.

Now for an ar15 (my particular arx39 rifles are  gas impingement or DI) it'll be a pain in the ass to scrub clean on the inside, especially in the gas tube, gas block, under the trigger without me taking it apart. Best I could do is use hot soapy water or windex to get it in there and use gas tube cleaners. Or dunk the complete upper in my tub or something. Also would have to clean buffer tube. Idk maybe it's just me but I find that hard haha cause I'm lazy. I also recently bought a bore scope to check if I have gas port erosion. I'm a bit ocd so yeah lol. from what I read last night you could always dunk the complete rifle in hot soapy water then use a heat gun or blow dryer to get rid of all the water then lube regularly. But in my mind I would have that itchy feeling I would forget something. Some people say not to shoot poly coated ammo then brass right after. I forget their reasoning, but I know from friends that the chamber does get gummy .

It's all personal preference. The procedure I stated above is a good way to do it though and been proven to work. I would like to try and stay away from extensive moisture unless I absolutely need to. Like if shtf I would definitely use it a hurricance if need be.

I won't lie ak brass ammo is expensive. 19$ for 20 rounds of AE fmj. But my grouping was good at an inch or so at 100 (some were less than an inch, some were 1.5 or so) and at 50 yards I could clover leaf 15 rounds back to back. I also shot flyers which were my fault and called it to my friend who was spotting for me. Of course maybe a second or 2 or 3 between shots. I give it a good trade off . The fiocchi on the other hand was like 2-3 inch groups at 100 with a 2-7 scope.

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2017, 04:42:10 PM »
Sorry  Stang!

But also there's the bolt breaking issue. Which is why I choose brass ammo over steel. They designed the ak for steel ammo so I'm certain they chose a harder steel. Plus if you have an ak. Look at the amount of metal that circles the base of a cartridge. It's a lot compared to a 7.62x39 ar15 bolt. That metal makes a difference. Which is why the cmmg mutant was designed with a modified ar10 bolt on a ar15 sized rifle. The cmmg mutant also uses ak47 standard mags for more reliable feeding. They thought that rifle through. I dunno anything bout ks47 or whatever by palmetto. Seems like the same designs almost as rra ar47 as well.

Problems with arx39 rifles.

1. Bolt breakage
2. Feeding problems due to mags
3. Feeding problems due to feed ramps
4. Failure to ignite berdan primers

I think that's all the main problems
Now here's the solutions

1. Better steel than old days/ hardening process after milling out the bolts to accept the larger round/ extra process to strengthen the bolt (nickel boron and nitriding)
2. Dremeling and sanding the front lip and side lips (plenty YouTube vids can explain better than I can)
3. Widening feed ramps with dremel. I had to do this with my ballistic advan. Barrel . Faxon was gtg. For a short while bushmaster made a ramp similar to 9mm ar15. They stopped the production years ago prob due to low amount of sales.
4."enhanced" firing pin. Can DYI or buy it. Just sand the shoulder of the rear to extend the firing pin prostrusion. Also have to use a full power hammer spring. I.e. No JP reduced springs. Unless you get that special JP hammer. I'm sure Geissele would work.

drck1000

Re: first AR build
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2017, 04:53:26 PM »
$1 per round for brass cased 7.62x39? Dayum! I cap brass 5.56/.223 at $0.35 per round.

I'll read closer later and respond, but I wanted to chime in on the cautions of mixing steel cases and brass ammo. At least my understanding. The steel cases don't expand in the chamber like brass, so carbon and other stuff can get blown in and accumulate in the space. Then the problem (at least as many have reported) is when you follow that with shooting with brass ammo. The idea is that since brass expands when fired, if the AR chamber has build up, that can lead to extraction issues. To help that, guidance has been to clean chamber if shooting brass after steel.

That said, I've seen many guns to back and forth and no problems. And I've seen other guns choke. Personally, I don't shoot much steel cased.  They don't function well in my mid-length ARs. I put together a carbine length AR that was with a known overgassed upper to test a theory that overgassed uppers can overcome some of the many reported issues with steel cases ammo.  Particularly the dirty chamber thing as well as cheap ammo like Tula being underpowered. However, since I completed the gun, I haven't been able to find Tula cheap. Last time I saw it, it was selling at close to $360/1000, which was MORE than M193! Wtf? Haha.

I also stay away from lacquer coated ammo as well. Heard many bad things about shooing that's stuff, but I have yet to try it myself.


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aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2017, 04:59:29 PM »
Drck1000 .  I think norinco ammo is corrosive? Or atleast a couple years ago it would be fo sure. my friends here and Vegas and Washington  as well as plenty other members from other forums say if it's not made in USA and have berdan primers just treat it as corrosive and all is well. I think but don't quote me on this...

Red army ammo is made in 2 diff places in Russia / that area of the world. One country uses corrosive primers and the other is not. Someone from m4carbine.net actually had pulled the bullet and popped the primers on steel plates. He tested a couple brands and some were corrosive and some weren't .

The only one I trust not to be corrosive is hornady sst . I'm sure they have strict guidelines to follow. And hell they make the best commercial ammo in my opinion. I use their 9mm, 357 mag to date. In the past I used 6.8, 223, 308, 357 sig with all awesome results. I cut down on calibers and settled with x39, 357 mag, 9mm, 38 spl and 20 gauge.

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2017, 05:03:33 PM »
Hahha yeah that's definitely on the mark drck1000. The whole expanding thing. Thanks for adding that!

And yeah if Tula was that much something is wrong!

And yup I definitely too lazy to clean at the range as well. I try to carry bare minimum.. I got lazier and lazier over the years..

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2017, 05:14:14 PM »
Super sorry stangzilla..

One last thing I forgot to mention.

Advan barrel is .310 bore
Faxon barrel is hybrid .308/ .310 bore
   (Definitely have no idea but that's what I was told when I spoke with them. I assume some lands are diff size)
 GM barrel for ddi ak is .310.

All that info came from dealer direct and I confirmed with calipers except the 308 part on my faxon barrel.

AE ammo is .310"
Fiocchi is .309"
Winchester is .312" --- haven't shot but inquired with the company

Red army I have no idea lol
Wolf  some came out .311 and some .310" from same box.

Idk how far up you can go beyond the size of your bore. Someone with knowledge on that can chime in if they want lol.

stangzilla

Re: first AR build
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2017, 05:46:43 PM »
I just got a few boxes of AE brass case 7.62x39
$18/20 rounds
I also have a case of wolf and case of tula
Test them all this weekend

aaronc5362

Re: first AR build
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2017, 06:38:16 PM »
Sounds good stangzilla.

Let us know your results!

Wish I could go often but my RDOs are now Tuesday and Wednesday. Maybe August will be my next time out there lol

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Re: first AR build
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2017, 04:26:17 AM »
I have a thought or two regarding the Chinese ammo made by Norinco. Back in the early to mid 90's I was buying cases of Norinco 9mm ammo. Most of it was headstamped 91-93. All brass cased, boxer primed, reloadable in some cases, and non corrosive. Obviously it was fresh as it was usually headstampped only a year or so before I bought it. When I was buying it, it was cheap and delivered via UPS to my front door. It is literally some of the best commercially made ammo I have ever bought. It is as accurate as anything I was reloading at the time. And cheaper, so I bought 15,000 rounds of it. Only complaint I had at the time was that it was loaded to what feels like +P velocities. And it is not marked as such. Now that I have had it for over 20 years I have two more complaints and that is that it is starting to corrode a little bit. I only have 800 or so rounds left so I'll shoot it up long before it goes bad. And it is really not reloadable as the primer pockets are inconsistent in size ranging from to small to too large in diameter between rounds.

If anyone would like to try some just PM me and I will be happy to work out a trade with you.

I can't say that the ammo you have for your AK is as good as what I have for my 9mm but from my experience, it should be.
Retirement Plans in the Works!!!

stangzilla

Re: first AR build
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2019, 08:09:37 PM »
my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight.  I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for:  PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet.  I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet.  will update when the parts come in.   :geekdanc:

« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:11:01 PM by stangzilla »

drck1000

Re: first AR build
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2019, 11:16:00 PM »
my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight.  I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for:  PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet.  I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet.  will update when the parts come in.   :geekdanc:

That’s an interesting rail. Looks pretty light.

50,000 rounds barrel life! That’s a LOT of $$$ for ammo!

stangzilla

Re: first AR build
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2019, 02:46:41 PM »
my 5th AR build
upper is from veriforcetactical https://veriforcetactical.com/product/ar-15-5-56-upper-15-inch-4-sided-m-lok-handguard-comp-fde/
lower is Aero Precision. I really like the tension screw on the lower, makes the fitment really tight.  I believe it helps with the accuracy. milspec parts except for:  PSA 2 stage trigger 4.5 lbs, KVP H2 buffer, JP Enterprise enhanced buffer spring, PSA nickel/boron bcg, ambidextrous CH, Spike's XL trigger guard, grip and stock will be replaced with magpul FDE parts just have not arrived yet.  I have a Vortex scope and bipod that I have not installed yet.  will update when the parts come in.   :geekdanc:


finished the build with the Magpul furniture:  ACS stock and MOE grip, and Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50