All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE. (Read 9079 times)

punaperson

All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« on: February 22, 2016, 07:47:10 PM »
All the CCW (and related) bills (HB1691, HB710, HB2425, SB2711, SB1184, SB95, SB354)  for the 2016 Hawaii legislative session are DEAD. None of the them even got scheduled for any committee hearings where testimony could have been submitted. So much for "our public servants" listening to us.  >:(

I'll (probably) see you again next legislative session, unless the Peruta/Richards decision (which I expect within the next 5 weeks, probably April 1, 2016) or the Young decision are so outrageously preposterous that I can't restrain myself from posting my apoplectic reaction.

 :shaka:

Q

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 08:00:52 PM »
I hope we show up in droves next legislative session and confront the politicians responsible for this, because it's the only way we are going to show them we are serious.

I have my doubts though, so I will put my faith in peruta and/or baker.

eyeeatingfish

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 04:57:43 AM »
I read a news article, I think from civil beat, which pointed out how a bill that allowed citizens to propose laws got shot down by refusal to have a hearing for it. A couple of the legislators plan on adding it to the ballot as a constitutional convention in a couple of years. So while it is a long way off, it is good news because that would allow us to submit bills!

The more I hear about this, the more it irritates me that a single legislature can deny a chance for a law to be passed regardless of how much or little support there is for it.

I want to take action but I don't think just emailing the legislators involved will do any good. I am at a loss to figure out what course of action to take.

Maybe we can find their Facebook page and publicly post the question of why they stifle the democratic process by refusing to hear bills. I don't know how else to get more attention. The HRA doesn't have enough money for advertisements do they....
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 05:04:05 AM by eyeeatingfish »

RSN172

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 05:57:04 AM »
Unless CCW becomes a national law and not left up to individual states, Hawaii will never allow CCW.  Even if put on a ballot, more people would vote against it. 
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 07:36:18 AM »
I concur with eyeeatingfish that emailing, faxing, sending letters, calling and meeting in person with legislators that oppose our being able to legally exercise our rights appears to be useless (not one single "citizen" in the state is legally "allowed" to carry, only four licenses issued in the past 16 years, and the most recent one of those, in 2013 in Kauai was issued for a term of NINE DAYS (it's been three weeks so far since the police chief told me he would get back to me about what statute "allowed" him to issue a license for any term other than the "one year" prescribed by HRS 134-9. You'd think he'd know of the top of his head the source of his authority.  :wtf: But I guess that's too much to expect.)

One option (as Q states above) is to look to another branch of government, the court system, to validate and enforce our rights in the face of another branch of government trampling on them. I think it's pretty clear now that both the state court system and the federal court system, including the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, will not support our right to bear arms outside the home. Peruta/Richards/Baker was an anomalous result at the three judge panel level due to a statistically highly unlikely fluke wherein two of the three judges randomly selected happened to support our rights. The entire Circuit membership is nearly 3/4 appointees selected by presidents  for their "liberal" views. SCOTUS hasn't taken a Second Amendment case since 2010, and of several cases where cert was denied only Scalia and/or Thomas wrote dissents. Only four votes are required to grant cert, so it appears that Kennedy, and likely even Roberts, are opposed to citizens being armed in public. Now that Scalia is gone, that leaves only Thomas (like Scalia was, also in rather poor health) and Alito as likely supporters of our rights. I am not hopeful about the judicial branch of government supporting our rights in Hawaii.

How did women obtain the "right" to vote? How did "black people" obtain the rights to vote, attend schools and colleges that had banned them, sit where they wanted on buses, etc. etc. etc.? How did members of the LGBT community manage to convince lawmakers and courts to "grant" them the ability to marry and have other legal rights they had been denied in the face of overwhelming opposition from the general population?

Until we have enough people willing to put themselves "on the line" and face repeated arrest in mass demonstrations that disrupt "business as usual" for government agencies, it's unlikely that any other strategy (that I can think of) will result in any change. Our problems with this strategy are that: 1. We don't have nearly enough people willing to put their lives on hold for years while subject to the harsh punishments and harassment by the government that would result from disruptive demonstrations. 2. As a total group, we are much fewer in number than any of the previously cited groups: women are 50% of th total population, "blacks" are 13%, and LGBT are maybe 2-5%. I'd imagine that CCW advocates who would exercise their right in Hawaii is around 1-3%. I also suspect that there are relatively few "nonmembers" who sympathize with us enough to participate in demonstrations as was the case with the other groups. 3. We are an extremely small minority who reside in a few repressive states (Hawaii, New Jersey, Maryland, some counties of California, etc.), while the vast majority of citizens of the Untied States already have the right and exercise it, unlike the other cases. 4. OFWGs are not nearly as "sympathetic" as the other groups. And we have no images of being attacked by police dogs, billy clubs, fire hoses, etc. Thus, I must conclude that even the only strategy that has proven to work in other cases of rights denial will not work for us.

So, I give up. They win.

No, not really. It's a civics lesson, if nothing else. I concur with RSN172 that the most likely remedy could come from some kind of federal legislation requiring all states to (at least) recognize and honor reciprocity for all other states CCW licenses. That can only happen if the U.S. House and Senate, and the presidency are controlled by individuals sympathetic to our cause and willing to legislate it. So we're dependent on politicians. Again. I don't like that. But I'm going to vote anyway.

Q

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 07:57:58 AM »
I read a news article, I think from civil beat, which pointed out how a bill that allowed citizens to propose laws got shot down by refusal to have a hearing for it. A couple of the legislators plan on adding it to the ballot as a constitutional convention in a couple of years. So while it is a long way off, it is good news because that would allow us to submit bills!

The more I hear about this, the more it irritates me that a single legislature can deny a chance for a law to be passed regardless of how much or little support there is for it.

I want to take action but I don't think just emailing the legislators involved will do any good. I am at a loss to figure out what course of action to take.

Maybe we can find their Facebook page and publicly post the question of why they stifle the democratic process by refusing to hear bills. I don't know how else to get more attention. The HRA doesn't have enough money for advertisements do they....

RSN172

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 09:12:13 AM »
There will be a point in my life when I will carry a concealed firearm regardless of what the law says.  No one will ever know I have it and at that point in my life I wouldn't care if I had to use it to defend myself or family.  Right now I am thinking when I am about 80 years old, if I am still alive, or sooner if I  am diagnosed with a terminal illness.
Happily living in Puna

London808

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 10:03:07 AM »
Another problem we have in Hawaii is the law/rules are being decided/enforced by an appointed city/county employee, Hawaii does not have an elected/constitutional sheriff who would in most cases issue these permits. If you dont like the sheriff you vote him out. Hawaiis laws put the power in the hands of a puppets who can not be removed from his throne.

Not to mention as its been seen time and time again, HPD and others choose to use policy's instead of Laws to do what they want.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

punaperson

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 10:59:37 AM »
A person in Hawaii has approximately the same chance of being the victim of a crime that does or could include personal physical injury, such as assault, rape, robbery, etc. as being in a motor vehicle accident.

The state requires that a people have insurance to operate a motor vehicle in public in order to lessen the harm caused by accidents.

The state prohibits people from bearing arms in public which might allow for some people to lessen the harm caused by criminals.

Those two facts are what passes for "public safety" logic in Hawaii.

London808

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 12:41:00 PM »
A person in Hawaii has approximately the same chance of being the victim of a crime that does or could include personal physical injury, such as assault, rape, robbery, etc. as being in a motor vehicle accident.

The state requires that a people have insurance to operate a motor vehicle in public in order to lessen the harm caused by accidents.

The state prohibits people from bearing arms in public which might allow for some people to lessen the harm caused by criminals.

Those two facts are what passes for "public safety" logic in Hawaii.

Just want to say the State does not prohibit it restricts and that is how they get away with this bullshit. 
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

punaperson

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 01:32:48 PM »
The state prohibits people from bearing arms in public which might allow for some people to lessen the harm caused by criminals.
Just want to say the State does not prohibit it restricts and that is how they get away with this bullshit.
Good catch. How about "de facto prohibits"?

South Dakota, with a population of 100,000 fewer citizens than Oahu currently has approximately 12.5% (or slightly greater by some estimates) of it's adults bearing CCW permits.

An equivalent percentage applied to state of Hawaii adults 21 years of age and greater would result in over 127,000 adults in Hawaii having currently valid CCW licenses.

The actual number is zero (0). And the total licenses issued in the past 16 years is four (4), and one of those was for a term of NINE DAYS. That's not technically linguistically a "prohibition" or "ban", but for all intents and practical purposes it is, and those numbers make a mockery of the law, law enforcers, and legislators who insist that Hawaii is a "may issue" state and that the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to bear arms (outside the home) is a recognized and implemented right in this state are disingenuous at best, and a bunch of things I won't list, not at worst, but in fact.

hvybarrels

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 02:11:51 PM »
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Mauivigilance

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Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 03:19:51 PM »
Lets not forget guys that hawaii is a democrat state so its definitely gonna be an uphill struggle. We are exercising our first amendment rights to verbally protect the other amendments so lets keep using that. But remember our individual rights are not taken away, more that they are given away.
The only ism that has not failed me yet is skepticism.....

Q

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 04:19:57 PM »
Lets not forget guys that hawaii is a democrat state so its definitely gonna be an uphill struggle. We are exercising our first amendment rights to verbally protect the other amendments so lets keep using that. But remember our individual rights are not taken away, more that they are given away.

The problem is they don't fear us.

They don't fear us because people won't make an effort to make a presence when the time calls for it.

If excuses were a valid argument for gun rights, everyone in Hawaii would have a M2 .50 cal on their roof and be able to drive a tank to work by now.

Mauivigilance

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Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 04:33:41 PM »
Yes its true unfortunately it reminds me of the story of the frog in a pot of slowly heating water. There will be many frogs who will not heed the warnings of the increasing heat..... But some will listen and jump out of the pot accordingly. Lol
The only ism that has not failed me yet is skepticism.....

punaperson

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2016, 04:59:14 PM »
...everyone in Hawaii would have a M2 .50 cal on their roof and be able to drive a tank to work by now.
I know I'd like to drive a tank up to Kenoi's office and drag that smirking smarmy lying criminal off the taxpayer's dole. That'd be cool!  :geekdanc: Then I'd head over to Kubojiri's office...  :shaka:

zippz

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2016, 03:25:07 PM »
We need more women and women's groups to signup for their CCW's and to testify next year.  CCW helps women the most.

ren

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2016, 03:43:03 PM »
all these people we elected are for the people much like this guy...
Deeds Not Words

Q

Re: All the CCW bills for 2016 are DEAD. OVER. DONE.
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2016, 03:57:17 PM »
I know I'd like to drive a tank up to Kenoi's office and drag that smirking smarmy lying criminal off the taxpayer's dole. That'd be cool!  :geekdanc: Then I'd head over to Kubojiri's office...  :shaka:

We may get our chance one day if they keep this up.