Quote from: GZire on November 08, 2011, 03:07:25 PM

Quote from: Cougar8045 on November 08, 2011, 09:34:05 AM

A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them:  Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's.  There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead.  A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived. 

Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him.  That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club.  Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased.  There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.

According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife.  Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him.  That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest.  Where do your hands go?  Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely.  Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid.  That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot. 

Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.

Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made.  Who are the three friends?  I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.

Which story makes more sense?  Which story explains the few established facts we know about?

Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts.  The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them.  No one has gone out and verified anything.  Typical of Hawaii's "journalists."  It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.

Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes.  Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.

Anything to bolster ratings.

For sure.  I like how the US calls the guys on the news "reporters," implying journalists whereas the Brits call their people "news readers," implying they read the news to you.......no implied actual investigation of events.

Quote from: nf9648 on November 08, 2011, 03:36:40 PM

Quote from: ren on November 08, 2011, 08:12:35 AM

I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you??

Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge.

Some more media spin.

Where is the lawyer getting his info again?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html

Sounds like a mish mash of media out of here presented at three different times over the course of the past two days. 

Thats usually how it is, you can watch the 5o clock news and the 6o clock news and they will pretty much say the same thing.

Re: "facts" I thought the guy was apprehended a few blocks away. I wish the police would give us more info.

 if it was a legit shoot and the deceased was at fault im assuming they wouldnt be making us wait till after APEC to find out all the details.

I see the opposite: if this wasn't self defense, and they were going to have him drawn and quartered, they'd be trying us all about it to placate the kingdom folks. Either that or the wheels of justice grind slowly.

Interestingly, the lawyer that the family of the victim hired to sue in a CIVIL suit (cha-ching!) has a long, long career as a criminal defense lawyer.

http://hawaiimostwanted.com/attorneymichaelgreenthedefenseneverrests.asp

Huh. How about that.

Interesting, look at who's organizing marches making a big, big stink about this shooting:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene

Carolyn Hadfield, one of the organizers of the march, told the crowd through a megaphone that she was angered by the fact that Deedy was released on bail.

"He went free without even a requirement that he stay in Hawaii," she said. "It's emblematic of the power of protecting him and it's we the people that are going to have to be out there demanding justice or this will be swept under the rug."

Who's Carolyn Hadfield, you ask? Just a professional protester.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii

It looks like everyone's crawling out of the woodworks to take advantage of this "opportunity".

Looks like she runs a Marxist bookstore: http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/

Oh, huh. Carolyn "volunteers" at the bookstore that she happens to be PRESIDENT of: http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books

I always wondered who "owned" Revolution Books

Interesting, look at who's organizing marches making a big, big stink about this shooting:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/11/08/police_knife_recovered_at_hawaii_shooting_scene

Quote

Carolyn Hadfield, one of the organizers of the march, told the crowd through a megaphone that she was angered by the fact that Deedy was released on bail.

"He went free without even a requirement that he stay in Hawaii," she said. "It's emblematic of the power of protecting him and it's we the people that are going to have to be out there demanding justice or this will be swept under the rug."

Who's Carolyn Hadfield, you ask? Just a professional protester.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mother-sheehan-and-commies-in-hawaii

It looks like everyone's crawling out of the woodworks to take advantage of this "opportunity".

Looks like she runs a Marxist bookstore: http://honoluluweekly.com/entertainment/2007/10/city-wise-10-17-2007/

Oh, huh. Carolyn "volunteers" at the bookstore that she happens to be PRESIDENT of: http://www.manta.com/c/mmdmwh0/revolution-books

Was just about to read this article:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111109_Victim_in_Waikiki_shooting_deserves_justice_group_says.html?id=133519038

I first thought the picture being hoisted was of Marx, then realized it was Kollin..........whoops........

I'm reserving judgment on the murder until more credible facts come out.  Elderts could be an innocent victim, or he could be the instigator. He might have been a friendly local who just happened to make a joke at the wrong time at the wrong guy, or he could be a bully who thought he was going to beat up on a haole with his buddies and go home with a smile. Deedy could be someone who was caught in an unfortunate situation, or he could be a loose cannon. At this point, what anyone claims says more about the speaker than it does about the case.

BUT...I'm not waiting to roll my eyes at the opportunists making this about something other than what it is.

For the lawyer, it's a big, fat, payday. I get the feeling he's running around manipulating the press and pulling strings here and there. How much did he have to do with this march?

For the communists and pinkos, it's yet more facetime in front of cameras, and social coin to spend on their APEC protests.

For the angry locals, it's an excuse to make it about race.

For the angry haoles, it's an excuse to make it about race.

For the anti-gun crowd, well, you get the idea...

I'm reserving judgment on the murder until more credible facts come out. 

Freudian slip there?

Obviously you've made up your mind what this is.

I don't think it's a murder.

I think when all the dust settles, it will be called a justified shooting.

I think when all the dust settles, it will be called a justified shooting.

i think so too.

The media has really blown the facts of the case all over the place.  First they say no information is known, then they tell everybody what one guy said, and another guy stated, and the lawyer said this... Because of the whole APEC thing, everyone and their mother wants to get involved.  Have you guys read the comment section under the article?  rediculousness all over due to speculation. 

"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.

"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on November 09, 2011, 11:46:42 AM

"Murder" was just careless word choice. If anything, I lean rather heavily toward justified homicide. But like I said, I'm waiting for more reliable facts to come out before making up my mind.

I was trying to hold out and wait for more information, but the more I think about it, the more I think that it was a justified shoot.

The story that the family's lawyer's putting forth, that without any provocation, he just kicked the guy down and then shot him? Just doesn't seem very likely. If he were that off-balance emotionally, he most likely would not have the physical coordination to pull of that kind of martial arts feat. Though by all accounts, he fired three shots and hit once, and it sounds like, at close range.

The bloody knife is some major evidence.

Still waiting for facts...I just hope HPD doesn't mess this up somehow and end up with a hung jury. We need a full airing of facts and a fair trial.

The story that the family's lawyer's putting forth, that without any provocation, he just kicked the guy down and then shot him? Just doesn't seem very likely. If he were that off-balance emotionally, he most likely would not have the physical coordination to pull of that kind of martial arts feat. Though by all accounts, he fired three shots and hit once, and it sounds like, at close range.

The bloody knife is some major evidence.

Still waiting for facts...I just hope HPD doesn't mess this up somehow and end up with a hung jury. We need a full airing of facts and a fair trial.

If this is done right, you should either get a plea on the case or it will never see the light of day, because prosecutors decided it was indeed a lawful shoot. Trials expend lots of resources that we don't currently have. It will just become about Haole v. Local.  Do the cause no good; do the race relationships no good etc.

Sometimes a person disrespects the wrong hombre.

Occassionally someone thinks they can mess with someone and unfortunately, this is the result.

My advice is STFU and walk away.

A big mouth and puffed up chest doesn't get you anywhere.

But some people need to learn this lesson the hard way.

Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false 
Comment: 

That's from one of the news articles.  People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here.  Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland.  Is this guy/gal serious?  Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary?  Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?

Quote

Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false 
Comment: 

That's from one of the news articles.  People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here.  Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland.  Is this guy/gal serious?  Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary?  Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?

I saw that comment, too, and I was going to post a reply to it, but the site wasn't working for me.

Quote from: Cougar8045 on November 09, 2011, 01:45:53 PM

Quote

Highinthesierras wrote: We should count our blessings. If more mainland visitors were able to bring guns we would have many more shootings. The theft, harassment and other crimes we are so well known for tend to aggravate folks not used to them, and their reactions would be scary if armed.
on November 9,2011 | 06:48AMName: false 
Comment: 

That's from one of the news articles.  People like this babbling idiot make me want to hang my head in shame for living here.  Then it makes me want to pack my bags and head for the mainland.  Is this guy/gal serious?  Their concern is that if people were allowed to carry, their reaction to theft, harassment, or other crimes might be scary?  Scary for who, you fraqqin' retard?

I saw that comment, too, and I was going to post a reply to it, but the site wasn't working for me.

Yeah, I thought about it, but what I posted here was the most civil thing I could think of to post, so I decided to come here and vent, instead.