The letter states that he is in violation of 134-7 and because of that he must surrender/transfer his firearms. If he hasent violated 134-7 why would he need to surrender/transfer them. Thats why he needs to speak to a lawyer. With regards to a search warrant im sure they would/will he has untill day 30 to transfer them, Rifles can be done same day, He is already within the last 14 days so transferring a pistol would have to be to an FFL who dont need the 14 day waiting period. OR take them out of state where Hawaii's BULLSHIT laws dont apply.

I don't think that matters. Just because a police officer quotes a wrong law doesn't mean the action is invalid. If a cop told you that you were arrest for assault 2nd but he should have said assault 3rd, is the case thrown out of court? Now as a matter of procedure he might be able to call back and get them to send a new letter quoting the proper section and thus extend the required dispose of date, but it is not going to help him avoid the issue.

Thank you all for your input and concern.

I spoke briefly to Wolfwood, he called me after I sent an email to Rick Holcomb and himself. I am not sure if my email's after the first one are getting through to Rick or if he is busy in court or perhaps junk mail. Hope to hear back soon.

I am pulling my Medical record from Kaiser. Unknown time to acquire them was quoted 4-8 weeks, I asked for them to be expedited; will have to follow up Monday.

I did cancel the permit to acquire within a day or two of the HPD call and Kaiser. I believe that Kaiser is refusing and making people use outside doctors and pay out of pocket. When I was at Kaiser an hour ago I asked for their policy on medical clearance and was given a general letter that i will try to post soon along with a number for Kaiser's customer service.

I forgot to add that I recently registered a lower in January with my Long gun permit to acquire that "was" valid until August 2016.


If all else fails i will try to talk to a few gun shops I regularly do business with and see if they would be willing to help me out and transfer the firearms to them until this is resolved.

I am still unclear on the amount of time I have. It was certified mail that I signed for on the 29th. The Final Notice was delivered on the 24th. I did not receive it until the 28th. The letterhead is the 10th so is the postage.

The fact that you cancelled the request rather than HPD denying it could be the key to blocking this. I hate to have a martyr but if they do take away the guns in violation of this fact maybe that could lead to a  lawsuit and cause HPD to back off through a lesson in legal costs.

I don't think that matters. Just because a police officer quotes a wrong law doesn't mean the action is invalid. If a cop told you that you were arrest for assault 2nd but he should have said assault 3rd, is the case thrown out of court? Now as a matter of procedure he might be able to call back and get them to send a new letter quoting the proper section and thus extend the required dispose of date, but it is not going to help him avoid the issue.

Of course it matters, 124-7 sets the law for exclusion and seizure/surrender, IF heis not excluded for any reason stated in that section they can not give a legal order for him to surrender/seize his firearms.

Without knowing what his medical provider sent/said to HPD and what section of 134-7 he has supposedly violated we cant know for sure, But my feeling along with most (im sure having seen this in the past)  is that his health provider did not provide clearance and HPD is using a lack of information to make a determination of a medical invalidation, Essentially saying because we dont have evidence otherwise you must have something wrong and as such are deciding to violate his rights,

We will have to wait and see what the outcome is after he has got legal council

Guilty until proven innocent?

[quote author=SWHunter link=topic=22609.msg202995#msg202995 date=1459567119
I am pulling my Medical record from Kaiser. Unknown time to acquire them was quoted 4-8 weeks, I asked for them to be expedited; will have to follow up Monday.
[/quote]

Instead of pulling your medical records ask them for a copy of what they sent to HPD, If they can send it to HPD within 7 days (i belive that is what HPD request in the letter they send out) im sure they can get it to you as quick, Not to mention it should be easy for them to access as they just sent it. This will tell you exzacley what HPD has seen and let you know what the basis for their denial is.

Guilty until proven innocent?

Thats the way they role, Same thing with mine, We dont know if you committed any criminal acts outside of the country (even tho i cleared background check with ICE and the records show that i dont have any outside of the USA)  so were gona deny your permit untill you prove otherwise

I have Kaiser and did not have an issue with my permits.  I applied on March 11th.  Maybe it was an issue in February and no longer an issue???

HPD went back to their original standpoint:  if you ever saw BHS or a psychologist at kaiser for any reason, you may be red flagged, HPD's discretion.
if you never saw a psychologist at kaiser or straub, you're good to go.

Your case could make a devastating investigative news story.
But your case better be rock solid under close scrutiny because if you go public and it is later revealed that you had a skeleton in the closet, it could cause irreparable damage to the 2A community.

OP asked to have these posted here for reference:

OK, So from my understanding HPD is in the wrong,

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The medical wavier you sign allows them access to your medical records, for the purpose of making a determination,
http://honolulupd.org/downloads/medicalinformation_HPD089R05_13.pdf

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I, ___________________________________, do freely and in compliance with sections 134-2 and 134-7
 (PLEASE PRINT NAME)
of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, authorize the Chief of Police in the City and County of Honolulu access
to any and all records which have a bearing on my mental health for the strict purpose of determining
my qualification to acquire, own, possess, or have under my control, a firearm.

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HPD is meant to use the information provided to make a determination based on HRS 134-7 on weather you are medically excluded from owning a firearm,  HPD may only ask for a copy of your medical records relating to conditions that would excluded you under HRS 134-7. Asking for ANYTHING else is a violation of your privacy

HPDS requirement that the doctor writes a letter stating anything is also a violation of your rights and using a lack of letter to determine the status of a permit is also a violation of your rights, The law allows denial of a permit and confiscation/surredor of firearms only a very strict set of rules, HPD, HPD useing a lack of information to make a determination is wrong, its assumed guilt un-till proven innocent,

The letter that HPD sends out to doctors should read along the lines of (and i belive it once did)

Your client (NAME) has applied for a firearms permit with the Honolulu police department, In compliance  HRS 134-2 & 134-7, your client has signed a medical release form (included with their letter) that will allow us to make a determination on theire medical ability to own a firearm in compliance with Hawaii's laws,

(WORDING OF EXCLUSIONS FOR DOCTORS REFERENCE)

If you believe your client has or may have had in the past any condition that would excluded them from owning a firearm  under HRS 134-2 or 134-7 you have 7 days to notify HPD including any medical documents in relation to this condition.  If no infromation is received we will issue your client a firearms permit on (DATE OF 14th day)

(HPD FAX/MAILING info)

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This is what the law states :

§134-3.5]  Disclosure for firearm permit and registration purposes.  A health care provider or public health authority shall disclose health information, including protected health care information, relating to an individual's mental health history, to the appropriate county chief of police in response to a request for the information from the chief of police; provided that:
     (1)  The information shall be used only for the purpose of evaluating the individual's fitness to acquire or own a firearm; and

     (2)  The individual has signed a waiver permitting release of the health information for that purpose. [L 2001, c 252, §1]

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AGAIN, the law only requires them to Disclose information not make a statement of fact, HPD's requiremnt that they do so is illegal, an invasion of privacy and violating your constitutional rights to bear arms

this may be after the fact but, for future applications. a friend of mine used to be an FFL a long time ago and he listed that he had no doctor. HPD gave him a lot of crap on the matter but he persevered and never had to do any medical clearance for his firearms.

this may be after the fact but, for future applications. a friend of mine used to be an FFL a long time ago and he listed that he had no doctor. HPD gave him a lot of crap on the matter but he persevered and never had to do any medical clearance for his firearms.

Even if you do have a doctor that you see on a regular basis you are not required to provide their information, The only requirement by law is that you sign the release (you must complete your personal information for identification purposes) , Every other piece of information on the form is optional (doctors information), 

If you have a doctor , (Named on your insurance card as your PCP or your under treatment for anything [including dental]) DO NOT say you do not have one, You will/can lose your gun rights for the rest of your life. You are not required to give more information then required by law but providing false information is a felony.

§134-17  Penalties.
a)  If any person gives false information or offers false evidence of the person's identity in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, provided, however that if any person intentionally gives false information or offers false evidence concerning their psychiatric or criminal history in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a class C felony.

Even if you do have a doctor that you see on a regular basis you are not required to provide their information, The only requirement by law is that you sign the release (you must complete your personal information for identification purposes) , Every other piece of information on the form is optional (doctors information), 

If you have a doctor , (Named on your insurance card as your PCP or your under treatment for anything [including dental]) DO NOT say you do not have one, You will/can lose your gun rights for the rest of your life. You are not required to give more information then required by law but providing false information is a felony.

§134-17  Penalties.
a)  If any person gives false information or offers false evidence of the person's identity in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, provided, however that if any person intentionally gives false information or offers false evidence concerning their psychiatric or criminal history in complying with any of the requirements of this part, that person shall be guilty of a class C felony.

good point. i forgot to mention my friend is an "old" fart and his PCP retired which is why he didn't have one and he never goes to the doctors.

Not to hijack my friend's thread, but I thought it was a little bit of a related question. Does anybody know if straub patients are in the clear about this medical clearance yet? Or should I cancel my doctor through straub and go find a new non-straub Doctor, since I am not required by my insurance to have straub?

Not to hijack my friend's thread, but I thought it was a little bit of a related question. Does anybody know if straub patients are in the clear about this medical clearance yet? Or should I cancel my doctor through straub and go find a new non-straub Doctor, since I am not required by my insurance to have straub?

Straub if good to go to my knowledge

I talked with the guys at HPD yesterday and they said there is nothing going on with Kaiser and Straub, everything is okay. They mentioned the 2a post with the letters and said as far as they know that has been resolved and was only a single transaction, no one else was affected. I have Straub and they said no worries.

Definitely not resolved. I was at HPD in the morning  yesterday and was told that I have 30 days from when I signed the certified letter. I asked HPD to send me a letter stating what subsection of 134-7 that I have violated. The Sgt. Told me he would ask the Major if he would send it out. I am awaiting the letter.

I got an odd idea. The law says this,


§134-3.5]  Disclosure for firearm permit and registration purposes.  A health care provider or public health authority shall disclose health information, including protected health care information, relating to an individual's mental health history, to the appropriate county chief of police in response to a request for the information from the chief of police; provided that:
     (1)  The information shall be used only for the purpose of evaluating the individual's fitness to acquire or own a firearm; and
     (2)  The individual has signed a waiver permitting release of the health information for that purpose. [L 2001, c 252, §1]

So, if you sign the form that permits your doctor to release the specified information and the doctor refuses, then the doctor is in violation. The law says that the healthcare provide SHALL disclose the healthcare information. So if your doctor refuses or the doctor's boss (Kaiser) refuses then ask a police officer to initiate a criminal case against the healthcare provider for violation of the law. When Kaiser or the doctor learns that they are having a criminal case made against them, maybe it will change their mood.

The beat officer might be irritated about this and probably wont know this law offhand so if you are going to do this, best to actually have the relevant laws handy. Also consider doing it at the doctor's office while the doctor is present so that the officer will be able to "interrogate" the suspect. This is kind of a waste of work for the officer but the doctor is refusing to comply with the law and now your rights to own a firearm are being denied. If you like your doctor maybe you don't want to do this but I am just thinking what other angles can be done in this issue for those being screwed by Kaiser.

Definitely not resolved. I was at HPD in the morning  yesterday and was told that I have 30 days from when I signed the certified letter. I asked HPD to send me a letter stating what subsection of 134-7 that I have violated. The Sgt. Told me he would ask the Major if he would send it out. I am awaiting the letter.

LOL " if he would send it out.", They are required to let you know, its called due process, They can not remove your rights without letting you know why,

I got an odd idea. The law says this,


§134-3.5]  Disclosure for firearm permit and registration purposes.  A health care provider or public health authority shall disclose health information, including protected health care information, relating to an individual's mental health history, to the appropriate county chief of police in response to a request for the information from the chief of police; provided that:
     (1)  The information shall be used only for the purpose of evaluating the individual's fitness to acquire or own a firearm; and
     (2)  The individual has signed a waiver permitting release of the health information for that purpose. [L 2001, c 252, §1]

So, if you sign the form that permits your doctor to release the specified information and the doctor refuses, then the doctor is in violation. The law says that the healthcare provide SHALL disclose the healthcare information. So if your doctor refuses or the doctor's boss (Kaiser) refuses then ask a police officer to initiate a criminal case against the healthcare provider for violation of the law. When Kaiser or the doctor learns that they are having a criminal case made against them, maybe it will change their mood.

The beat officer might be irritated about this and probably wont know this law offhand so if you are going to do this, best to actually have the relevant laws handy. Also consider doing it at the doctor's office while the doctor is present so that the officer will be able to "interrogate" the suspect. This is kind of a waste of work for the officer but the doctor is refusing to comply with the law and now your rights to own a firearm are being denied. If you like your doctor maybe you don't want to do this but I am just thinking what other angles can be done in this issue for those being screwed by Kaiser.

The Doctor is not violating the law, HPD is. The doctor is required to provide your medical information, They were doing that, they were sending over your relevant  medical record for HPD to make a determination on whether you are medically fit in the eyes of the law. HPD did not want that they want the doctor to make a statement saying that you are medically fit, The doctors are not willing to do that. (even tho their is a law protecting them form civil lawsuits (HRS 134-18), if they make this statement and you latter go on a rampage and kill a bunch of people and they declared you fit their life/career is over)
In this case (it looks like( HPD is requesting the wrong information and denying a firearms permit based purely on a lack of information not a negative response, Violating the OP's constitutional rights, 2A for denying him the right to bear arms, 5A denying him his right to due process and 14A denying him his right to due process.

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§134-18  Qualified immunity for physicians, psychologists, or psychiatrists who provide information on permit applicants.  There shall be no civil liability for any physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist who provides information or renders an opinion in response to an inquiry made for purposes of issuing a firearm permit under section 134-2 or for purposes of investigating the continuing mental health of the holder of a valid firearm permit provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist acted without malice.

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