wheres the supprorters of rail now (Read 147484 times)

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #140 on: June 29, 2016, 08:36:28 PM »
I paid for a car with four wheels not two.
This is a tax scam.
Now that rail tax is going to be permanent not for initial cost but for operating the expensive damn thing. Somewhere we are paying for somebody's kids' college education, house etc.  sound familiar?
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #141 on: July 01, 2016, 02:11:40 PM »
Interesting video. 

If you can't stay conscious for the whole testimony, at least watch from about 4:30 timemark to the end.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #142 on: July 01, 2016, 04:26:10 PM »
If that's the case, the City Council should be investigated.
Deeds Not Words

Sco

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #143 on: July 15, 2016, 07:44:57 PM »
I may be new to Hawaii, but I say investigate the a-holes that run this, reevaluate cost, and finish it. If it can be proved that some ass hat misappropriated funds, then burn him/her at the stake, but finish the rail under new contract. I'm from the SF bay, and our light rail really is an asset during our horrid commute, so I say finish it, and get a useful product. But make the a-holes who over-benefited from the tax payers pay.

Eh? Eh?

RSN172

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2016, 04:54:44 AM »
I may be new to Hawaii......... But make the a-holes who over-benefited from the tax payers pay.

Eh? Eh?

Unfortunately, as you will soon learn, Hawaii with its liberal one party no accountability political system, incompetence and corruption gets you a promotion and a pat on the back.
Happily living in Puna

London808

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #145 on: July 27, 2016, 11:30:13 AM »
The rail is expected to reduce traffic congestion by 1%, so banking on "people may switch" isn't a good planning goal.

For a population of 1 million, and a cost of over $12billion SO FAR (not counting maintenance), the rail will never be self-sustaining.

For a population of 1 million people with aprox 900k vehicles  our freeways (and roads) will never be able to Handel the load, In the 10 years (2004=2014) the number of vehicles registered in Honolulu went from 688163 to 816738 a 17%increase,  where as the population went from 918181 to 956336 (2005-2015) an increase of only 4%.

A reduction in the number of cars on the road not only decreases the amount of traffic but also the wear and tear on infrastructure, If the number of vehicles on the road expands at the same rate by 2034 there would be aprox 1.1 million vesicles on the roads with no room for meaningful expansion And with most new housing being built on the west side and most jobs being located in Honolulu city trafic can only be expected to increase at the same rate, making a 35 minute drive (light trafic) from Honolulu to Kapolei into 47 minute drive and a morning traffic drive from 1.5 hrs into 2 hr drive,

now a 45 minute train ride with a 10-15 minute bus transfer dosent sound so bad and with an estimated pass costing $90-$120 it will be cheaper then driving (remember gas prices are super low right now because we are at war with Russia and they could go back up any time)



Sources :
https://data.hawaii.gov/Economic-Development/Motor-Vehicle-Registration-Trend/i6gp-tvm3/data
http://population.us/county/hi/honolulu-county
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Surf

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2016, 01:00:03 PM »
Classic smoke and mirrors techniques to get the project off the ground and worry about the rest later.  HART knew this if not from day 1, they knew it on day 2.  They go into these projects understanding this and knowing the problems that they will face.  They have pre-planned contingencies for how to address issues when they arise.  Very little is a true surprise. 

The wheels were properly greased from the start so once the project started there was no stopping it.  The Feds aren't going to do a damn thing either.  Big business is not going to give a damn what any of us think and no oversight entity is going to resist the machine that is budgeted in the billions.  Everyone is going to play ball, one way or another and money talks.  The only way is if someone gets pissed off, or if their piece of the pie is lacking.

For this price tag, we could have had everything in the City, all infrastructure, roads, sewers, electric, parks, schools, etc, completely overhauled and had money left over.  We can't provide air conditioned classrooms, but can pay for this pig of a project? 

Also the phase "throwing good money after bad" comes to mind.  We are going to be carrying the burdens of annual operating costs, long after we have been fleeced from the construction costs.  AND they are purposely keeping the public in the dark as to what it will cost annually to operate.  Guess who is going to pay for it?  Yes they will have to break the news to the public sooner or later, but again it will be too late.  They are going to hand each and every one of us a shit sandwich and you will have to eat it.   

We seriously need an overhaul and anyone who cannot see this, is just as much a part of the problem as the Fat Cats in business and the politicians who are getting rich on it.  The difference is they are getting rich and eating filet mignon and you are getting poorer and getting a shit sandwich to chew on. 

Eat up.

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Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #147 on: July 27, 2016, 01:11:40 PM »
Classic smoke and mirrors techniques to get the project off the ground and worry about the rest later.  HART knew this if not from day 1, they knew it on day 2.  They go into these projects understanding this and knowing the problems that they will face.  They have pre-planned contingencies for how to address issues when they arise.  Very little is a true surprise. 

The wheels were properly greased from the start so once the project started there was no stopping it.  The Feds aren't going to do a damn thing either.  Big business is not going to give a damn what any of us think and no oversight entity is going to resist the machine that is budgeted in the billions.  Everyone is going to play ball, one way or another and money talks.  The only way is if someone gets pissed off, or if their piece of the pie is lacking.

For this price tag, we could have had everything in the City, all infrastructure, roads, sewers, electric, parks, schools, etc, completely overhauled and had money left over.  We can't provide air conditioned classrooms, but can pay for this pig of a project? 

Also the phase "throwing good money after bad" comes to mind.  We are going to be carrying the burdens of annual operating costs, long after we have been fleeced from the construction costs.  AND they are purposely keeping the public in the dark as to what it will cost annually to operate.  Guess who is going to pay for it?  Yes they will have to break the news to the public sooner or later, but again it will be too late.  They are going to hand each and every one of us a shit sandwich and you will have to eat it.   

We seriously need an overhaul and anyone who cannot see this, is just as much a part of the problem as the Fat Cats in business and the politicians who are getting rich on it.  The difference is they are getting rich and eating filet mignon and you are getting poorer and getting a shit sandwich to chew on. 

Eat up.
I hate Hillary.

All_rice

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #148 on: July 27, 2016, 05:41:26 PM »
Will there be anyone running against Hanabusa for Takai's seat?
Land of the free, because of the Brave!

RSN172

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #149 on: July 27, 2016, 10:23:47 PM »
Last I heard was no one wants to run against her because she already has a substantial war chest.
Happily living in Puna

omnigun

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2016, 06:38:04 AM »
I personally like rail.  I don't mind the additional small tax.  For the sake of fucking traffic its worth it.  I rather pay a few bucks then spend a few more minutes in traffic every day. 

eyeeatingfish

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2016, 10:53:42 AM »
I personally like rail.  I don't mind the additional small tax.  For the sake of fucking traffic its worth it.  I rather pay a few bucks then spend a few more minutes in traffic every day.

I wouldn't be surprised if they find ways to charge people using the freeway a little more. I don't think toll booths would be realistic but I can imagine some sort of vehicle tax being raised to help pay for the rail or incentives people's use of it.

yurcarmeean

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #152 on: February 15, 2017, 06:27:24 PM »
1.  does the rail look unstable to you?  it looks top heavy and it would tip over easily in the event of an earthquake...

2.  With all the curves and up and downs (since its built using the existing road layouts), how could we possibly expect it to reach high enough speeds to make it efficient and feasible? 

3.  Say the railcars fill up in Kapolei, and say it reaches maximum capacity of riders by the time it reaches Pearl City.  The folks in Pearl City will have to wait for the train to drop its load off in town, come back past them, to the start in Kapolei, then catch it the 2nd time it passes Pearl City to get to town, assuming the 2nd time isn't again packed with folks from Kapolei and Waipahu...  It's a 1 lane road.  The single rail system can only ensure that people move in 1 direction at any given time. 

Meanwhile, TheBus is making things much easier by offering an AllDay pass for only $5, effectively eliminating transfers and attracting riders.  Or a one way ride for $2.50  A major improvement if you ask me.    :thumbsup: for TheBus

4. and then of course there is the awful ugliness of it...  peep the graffiti that is already on the artist rendering! lol



http://honolulumagazine-images.dashdigital.com/images/2011/July11/rail6.jpg?ver=1309221377

« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:32:43 PM by yurcarmeean »
If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

London808

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #153 on: February 15, 2017, 07:04:02 PM »
1.  does the rail look unstable to you?  it looks top heavy and it would tip over easily in the event of an earthquake...

2.  With all the curves and up and downs (since its built using the existing road layouts), how could we possibly expect it to reach high enough speeds to make it efficient and feasible? 

3.  Say the railcars fill up in Kapolei, and say it reaches maximum capacity of riders by the time it reaches Pearl City.  The folks in Pearl City will have to wait for the train to drop its load off in town, come back past them, to the start in Kapolei, then catch it the 2nd time it passes Pearl City to get to town, assuming the 2nd time isn't again packed with folks from Kapolei and Waipahu...  It's a 1 lane road.  The single rail system can only ensure that people move in 1 direction at any given time. 

Meanwhile, TheBus is making things much easier by offering an AllDay pass for only $5, effectively eliminating transfers and attracting riders.  Or a one way ride for $2.50  A major improvement if you ask me.    :thumbsup: for TheBus

4. and then of course there is the awful ugliness of it...  peep the graffiti that is already on the artist rendering! lol


Nope, thats how they are built all around the world

Even if it does the whole rout at 25mph thats still faster then the 15mph on the freeway

Its not 1 rail its 2 rails, 1 in 1 out with multiple trains running

its really not that ugly, just takes some time to get used to seeing it, Just like any new building project.

"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #154 on: February 15, 2017, 07:18:22 PM »
We are so deep in the hole with rail why bother with stupid decorations?


so dumb.
Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2017, 08:09:56 PM »
According to the news this rail is now coasting the tax payers 10 BILLION. One of the issues is that the concrete is cracking and in some places the pillars are already sinking (settling as they call it) so they have put shims between the pillar and rail. I have on a couple of accounts spoke with some of the rail workers and what they say is "This rail is a joke" The estimated cost is going to exceed 10 BILLION and what does that mean for the people of Hawaii? Our taxes go up so we the Hawaiian people pay for the rail and our pay will remain the same. Not to mention the rebar they bought for the rail was bought way to early and is now rusting. Do you think they will clean the rust off the rebar before applying concrete to this metal? According to the workers....NO! The rust will not allow the rebar to adhere to the concrete causing no support. No support, and in a few years concrete starts to crack Hawaii is 10+Billion in the hole because of this rail, how fast do you think they are going to fix the crack? I tell you this I bet they raise our taxes again before they fix the cracks and the shifting of pillars. Rant over.
In other words, government continues to be a complete incompetent boondoggle lining the pockets of "friends" at the expense of taxpayers. See: Obamacare website (talk about a boondoggle!) contract to Michelle Obama's friend, $900 million unrepaid "loan" to Obama donor CEO of Solyndra that never produced a single photovoltaic panel, Oroville dam, etc., etc., etc.

Inspector

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2017, 06:14:58 AM »
1.  does the rail look unstable to you?  it looks top heavy and it would tip over easily in the event of an earthquake...

2.  With all the curves and up and downs (since its built using the existing road layouts), how could we possibly expect it to reach high enough speeds to make it efficient and feasible? 

3.  Say the railcars fill up in Kapolei, and say it reaches maximum capacity of riders by the time it reaches Pearl City.  The folks in Pearl City will have to wait for the train to drop its load off in town, come back past them, to the start in Kapolei, then catch it the 2nd time it passes Pearl City to get to town, assuming the 2nd time isn't again packed with folks from Kapolei and Waipahu...  It's a 1 lane road.  The single rail system can only ensure that people move in 1 direction at any given time. 

Meanwhile, TheBus is making things much easier by offering an AllDay pass for only $5, effectively eliminating transfers and attracting riders.  Or a one way ride for $2.50  A major improvement if you ask me.    :thumbsup: for TheBus

4. and then of course there is the awful ugliness of it...  peep the graffiti that is already on the artist rendering! lol



http://honolulumagazine-images.dashdigital.com/images/2011/July11/rail6.jpg?ver=1309221377
1. It's funny you mention that. I was looking at it and realized that we had not built that portion of it yet. And I was thinking that the columns look much smaller in diameter than what we are actually building. Artists renderings sometimes are not to scale.

2. I think it is capable of getting up to 45 or faster. The problem is there are so many stops along the route. If my memory is correct the route is 20 miles long and there are 21 stations along the way. Of which the majority are located in the second section from the stadium to the mall.

3. There are two sets of rails up there. One set for each direction. And they will be running trains every 5 or 10 minutes. So if one is full you can wait for the next. But yes, you are correct. If they are all full the people in PC will be waiting a long ass time.

4. Graffiti is becoming a huge problem here. It is much worse than when I first moved here. They have special paint which won't allow for graffiti paint to stick well and it easily cleans. It may help. If you think this portion is ugly, just look at the portion that Ren posted below. Even uglier IMHO.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Inspector

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2017, 06:17:38 AM »
We are so deep in the hole with rail why bother with stupid decorations?


so dumb.
The designs in the columns denote where a station is going to be located. Coming soon to an area near you.

Note how large around the columns are with the large capitals. To me this is much more ugly than the artist renderings. But who says we are going to build it to look like that.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Inspector

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2017, 06:22:34 AM »
I want all of you to note that the first 3 stations were let out to contract quite a while ago and HD is just now building the first one in Waipahu. The second half of the rail has been let out to contract and they have not even started on it yet. If they are going to have to build their own precast yard like Kiewit did, it will be at least another year or two before they get started on the second half of the rail. And you think it is only up to $10 Billion now? Just wait. $15-$20 is not out of the question.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2017, 07:15:44 AM »
I want all of you to note that the first 3 stations were let out to contract quite a while ago and HD is just now building the first one in Waipahu. The second half of the rail has been let out to contract and they have not even started on it yet. If they are going to have to build their own precast yard like Kiewit did, it will be at least another year or two before they get started on the second half of the rail. And you think it is only up to $10 Billion now? Just wait. $15-$20 is not out of the question.
Yeah, but Dave, as a responsible citizen who willing makes whatever "contribution" is necessary for the "good of the people" (as determined by you-know-who), what possible better use could you put your hard-earned tax dollars to?