wheres the supprorters of rail now (Read 152110 times)

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #320 on: August 27, 2017, 03:39:05 PM »
Let's talk about fixing it once some high level people are behind bars.
I predict that "some high level people" will be "behind bars" the same year that permitless open and concealed carry go into effect in Hawaii.

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #321 on: August 27, 2017, 04:58:50 PM »
I predict that "some high level people" will be "behind bars" the same year that permitless open and concealed carry go into effect in Hawaii.

Is that when global warming kicks in?
Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #322 on: August 28, 2017, 07:17:17 AM »
For those on Oahu would might want to make a public statement today:

drck1000

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #323 on: August 28, 2017, 08:08:17 AM »
Heard a report this morning saying something about two members of the finance (at least I think it was) committee in the State House that were removed over the weekend.  Just in time for the 5 day special session to "solve rail" funding.  No surprise that these two were reported to be pretty vocal with their opposition to rail and then a comment from the committee that was something about negotiations to get the "bail out" plan to where it is today took a lot of negotiating and changes would be too difficult at this time.  Yeah, that doesn't sound like more shady back room deals. 

I still wonder how they are going to justify all of this to the FTA and get (continued) funding. 

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #324 on: August 28, 2017, 08:23:17 AM »
And here's how all but one of the Big Island Reps (the Senators all oppose) want to screw us here on the Big Island to pay for that Oahu crony-capitalist wasteful and fraudulent mismanaged boondoggle stating various totally lame excuses (I wrote them all expressing my "displeasure"):

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/who-pays-price-many-big-island-not-board-fund-rail-honolulu

Who pays the price? Many on Big Island not on board to fund rail for Honolulu

A bill requiring the neighbor islands to help bail out Honolulu’s overbudget rail project is roundly opposed by Hawaii County officials, the chambers of commerce, hotel industry, many Big Island residents and all four of the island’s state senators.

Yet, all but one of the county’s seven members in the state House are likely to vote for the bill, a special session compromise between the House and Senate after negotiations broke down in the tumultuous last days of the regular legislative session that saw the ouster of the House speaker and the appointment of a new Senate Ways and Means Committee chairwoman.

RSN172

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #325 on: August 28, 2017, 10:08:53 AM »
May be the ones who will continue to profit from this debacle are paying certain crooked politicians under the table to support rail.
Happily living in Puna

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #326 on: August 28, 2017, 11:17:24 AM »
This is a perfect opportunity for Republicans to take some seats
Deeds Not Words

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #327 on: August 28, 2017, 11:58:03 AM »
Okay, they just put up the "testimony" (330 pages of it): http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/splsession2017a/SB4_TESTIMONY_WAM_08-28-17.pdf

I "had" to skim through all 330 pages and tally it up because I'm interested, curious, concerned, okay, obsessed with documenting how the "public servants"/government of the people, by the people, and for the people routinely ignores the people and instead act in their own personal interest. I know, hard to believe, huh? [The "public servants" acting in their own interest, not the "obsessed" part...]

Organizations (HART (duh!), other government agencies, unions, Democratic Party, LGBTQ Democratic Caucus) FOR: 18 (eighteen)

Organizations (mostly hotels) OPPOSED: 15 (fifteen)

And now for the "little people" (i.e. you and me)...

FOR: 8 (eight)
OPPOSED: 53 (fifty-three)


That's 6.6 TIMES as many ordinary citizens opposed to favoring...

I left out several submissions, as it wasn't clear if they supported or opposed the measure.

I didn't really have to read very much of many of the letters, especially the opposed, as they frequently started off with something like "How stupid is government, anyway?"...pretty sure where that was going... and it did.

Also the HART document submitted as testimony was 164 pages, so that was half to the total pages, and, no, I didn't read that crap.

For me, the only question will be how close to unanimous will this bill pass...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 12:04:09 PM by punaperson »

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #328 on: August 28, 2017, 03:10:25 PM »
Just announced that this bill will be before the House Financial and Transportation committees on Wednesday, August 30, at 1:30 PM.

People thus have 22 hours remaining (until 1:30 PM on Tuesday August 29) to submit testimony.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/splsession2017a/Hearing_TRN-FIN_08-30-17_.pdf

Edited to add addresses to submit testimony (for people like me who didn't see the "notice" that the website doesn't work for anything happening in the "special session" unless you notice and click on the "special session information" link):

FINtestimony@capitol.hawaii.gov  TRNtestimony@capitol.hawaii.gov
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 07:13:37 PM by punaperson »

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #329 on: August 29, 2017, 10:28:30 AM »
Somewhat to my surprise, the vote was not unanimous in favor of the rail tax increases and extensions. The Big Island senators followed thru on their stated opposition.

8/28/2017   S   The committee(s) on WAM recommend(s) that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes in WAM were as follows: 6 Aye(s); Senator(s) Dela Cruz, Keith-Agaran, Galuteria, Kidani, Shimabukuro, Wakai; Aye(s) with reservations: none; 5 No(es): English, Harimoto, Inouye, Kahele, Riviere; and 0 Excused: none.

8/29/2017   S   Reported from WAM (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 3) with recommendation of passage on Second Reading and placement on the calendar for Third Reading.

8/29/2017   S   Report adopted; Passed Second Reading with Senators Green, Harimoto, Inouye, Kahele, Riviere, Ruderman and Thielen voting "No".

So it passed the committee 6 to 5. Imagine the outcome if there were less than 100% Democrats in the senate... like maybe even one Republican (not a RINO)... of course he would have been removed from the committee the day before the hearing, just like the two Reps who oppose the new rail funding were from the House committee...

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #330 on: August 30, 2017, 08:33:13 PM »
Today's (Wednesday August 30, 2017) update.

All the committees have now passed a recommendation that SB4 be passed unamended. Thus it is very likely it will pass both the full senate and house as well, unless there are some secret backroom meetings going on... and I doubt anyone could possibly overcome the city and county of Honolulu, the state bureaucracy and all the unions, etc. to dissuade our government from taxing us more and more for longer and longer to pay for the rail boondoggle. I'd wager that there will never be a forensic audit that might have revealed fraud, waste and abuse, and that when the thing gets running (if it ever does) it will be plagued by mechanical problems and that the maintenance costs and operational costs will far exceed the current estimates and that more money will need to be extricated from taxpayers to keep it running. Oh, and the ridership will be far less than predicted and traffic won't be relieved at all. Other than that, I'd say it's a great use of $13 BILLION (or more likely $16 OR $20 BILLION in the long run...).

8/30/2017   S   Passed Third Reading. Ayes, 16; Aye(s) with reservations: none. Noes, 9 (Senator(s) Baker, English, Green, Harimoto, Inouye, Kahele, Riviere, Ruderman, L. Thielen). Excused, 0 (none). Transmitted to House.

8/30/2017   H   Received from Senate (Sen. Com. No. 3).

8/30/2017   H   Passed First Reading.

8/30/2017   H   Referred to TRN/FIN, referral sheet 1.

8/30/2017   H   The committee on TRN recommends that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 3 Ayes: Representative(s) Aquino, Nakamura, McDermott; 1 Aye with reservations: San Buenaventura; 2 Noes: Quinlan, Brower; and 1 Excused: Hashem.

8/30/2017   H   The committee on FIN recommend that the measure be PASSED, UNAMENDED. The votes were as follows: 8 Ayes: Representative(s) Luke, Cullen, Gates, Holt, Keohokalole, LoPresti, Nakamura, Yamashita; Ayes with reservations: none; 6 Noes: Cachola, DeCoite, Kobayashi, Lowen, Tupola, Ward; and 1 Excused: Representative(s) Fukumoto.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 08:46:50 PM by punaperson »

RSN172

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #331 on: August 31, 2017, 03:08:56 PM »
And the "temporary" .5% GET will never go away.  They will either make it permanent or keep extending it for 10 or 15 years at a time.  Rail costs WILL exceed $10B.  I will bet everything I own on it.
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #332 on: September 01, 2017, 06:39:11 AM »
Yesterday's update. Full House votes 38-8 to saddle their constituents (on all islands) with years of higher taxes in order to pay for obvious (probably corrupt and fraudulent) Oahu boondoggle. They will all be re-elected next election, mostly by ridiculously huge margins. Lucky we live Hawaii.

8/31/2017   H   Reported from TRN/FIN (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 3), recommending passage on Second Reading and placement on the calendar for Third Reading.

8/31/2017   H   Passed Second Reading; placed on the calendar for Third Reading with Representative(s) Creagan, Evans, McKelvey, Onishi, Oshiro, San Buenaventura voting aye with reservations (6); Representative(s) Brower, Choy, Lowen, Quinlan, Thielen, Todd, Tupola, Ward voting no (eight) and Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, McDermott, Nishimoto excused (5).
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 08:28:58 AM by punaperson »

drck1000

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #333 on: September 01, 2017, 07:56:25 AM »
Yesterday's update. Full House votes 38-8 to saddle their constituents (on all islands) with years of higher taxes in order to pay for obvious (probably corrupt and fraudulent) Oahu boondoggle. They will all be re-elected next election, mostly by ridiculously huge margins. Lucky we live Hawaii.

8/31/2017   H   Reported from TRN/FIN (Stand. Com. Rep. No. 3), recommending passage on Second Reading and placement on the calendar for Third Reading.

8/31/2017   H   Passed Second Reading; placed on the calendar for Third Reading with Representative(s) Creagan, Evans, McKelvey, Onishi, Oshiro, San Buenaventura voting aye with reservations (6); Representative(s) Brower, Choy, Lowen, Quinlan, Thielen, Todd, Tupola, Ward voting no (8) and Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, McDermott, Nishimoto excused (5).
Maybe my math is off, but how did is "pass" second reading with more nos than ayes? 

macsak

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #334 on: September 01, 2017, 08:02:04 AM »
Maybe my math is off, but how did is "pass" second reading with more nos than ayes?

it is assumed that everyone else not listed is an "aye" (without reservations)

drck1000

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #335 on: September 01, 2017, 08:14:27 AM »
it is assumed that everyone else not listed is an "aye" (without reservations)
Gotcha. 

I already saw that my state senator voted Aye the other day. 

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #336 on: September 01, 2017, 03:48:40 PM »
Today's update. Success!! The "Special Session" is a total success!! SB4 passed the House today (31-15), sent back to Senate (where it already had passed), and they sent it on to the Governor. Gee, I wonder what Ige will decide to do? Be sure to tell your children and grandchildren who enacted that tax on them for their whole lives in order for a few people to ride a train on Oahu for a few years (maybe). No forensic audit was called for so no worries about ever finding out about all the graft, corruption and fraud involved in this most expensive public works transportation project in history! Yea! We did it!

There is really nothing to be gained or hoped for, but if you're like me and want to let Ige know just how much you despise the rail railroading of taxpayers:

https://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/contact-the-governor/

9/1/2017   H   Floor amendment #1 failed following Voice vote: Noes, 2 (Representative(s) Luke, McKelvey). Excused, 4 (Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, Nishimoto).
9/1/2017   H   Floor amendment #2 failed following Voice vote: Noes, 1 (Representative(s) Luke). Excused, 4 (Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, Nishimoto).
9/1/2017   H   Floor amendment #3 failed following Voice vote: Noes, 3 (Representative(s) Luke, Yamane, Say). Excused, 4 (Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, Nishimoto).
9/1/2017   H   Floor amendment #4 failed following Voice vote: Noes, 2 (Representative(s) Luke, Aquino). Excused, 4 (Representative(s) Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, Nishimoto).
9/1/2017   H   Passed Third Reading with Representative(s) Kobayashi, Onishi, Oshiro, San Buenaventura, Woodson voting aye with reservations; Representative(s) Brower, Cachola, Creagan, DeCoite, Evans, Kong, Lowen, McKelvey, Quinlan, Say, Thielen, Todd, Tokioka, Tupola, Ward voting no (15) and Representative(s) Choy, Har, Hashem, Matsumoto, Nishimoto excused (5). Transmitted to Senate.
9/1/2017   S   Received from House (Hse. Com. No. 3).
9/1/2017   S   Enrolled to Governor.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:54:09 PM by punaperson »

punaperson

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #337 on: September 02, 2017, 07:39:45 AM »
As suspected, even before the bill was finally passed yesterday, Caldwell was already "hinting" that he'd be back in the (near?) future asking for more money (higher taxes) to finish the rail. At least my senator, as virulently anti-firearm civil rights as he is (he's one of the most "progressive" members of the senate) got it right on this issue.

[Mayor Caldwell]: “I think the bill should pass. I don’t want the bill to die,” Caldwell said. “I’m hopeful that the numbers and assumptions that have been made in this bill will prove correct, and there will be adequate funding to build all the way to Ala Moana.”

He added that “should there be an issue regarding sufficiency of funds, I think it would be something that would have to be discussed at another day.”…  (Translation: “I’ll be back.”)

“Among the greatest costs of rail, we can now add the severe degradation of the democratic process. By that I mean this bill was crafted behind closed doors and presented to us with the instructions that there will be no changes before we ever heard from the public,” said Sen. Russell Ruderman (D, Puna-Kau), who voted against SB 4. “We have a major new tax being enacted and we never heard from the public before we wrote the bill.”

http://hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesDailyNews/tabid/65/ID/20208/August-31-2017-News-Read.aspx

EDITED TO ADD: Easy to read summary of how senators voted and who among them is up for re-election in 2018:

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20198/24B-Tax-Hike-How-They-Voted.aspx

$2.4B / 1.4M people = $1714 per person in tax hikes = $6,857 tax hike for a family of four. [Of course that's if everything were equally distributed...]
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 08:20:02 AM by punaperson »

ren

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #338 on: September 02, 2017, 08:38:59 AM »
Drain the lo'i !!!! :grrr:
Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: wheres the supprorters of rail now
« Reply #339 on: September 02, 2017, 03:19:58 PM »
Wouldn't it be great if every sitting politician today doesn't get re-elected?  But 95% of HI voters have short term memory loss.  They will forget who voted for what by next month.
Happily living in Puna