The Sig Sauer Saga (Read 22536 times)

zippz

The Sig Sauer Saga
« on: April 09, 2016, 01:26:36 AM »
Primary mission  Pass the Sig Sauer Academy's Semi-Auto Pistol Instructor(COMPLETE) and Patrol Rifle Instructor (COMPLETE) courses.
Secondary mission:  Pass the NRA Protection Inside the Home Instructor course(COMPLETE), Meeting with the Clark County Shooting Range director (COMPLETE).
Tertiary mission:  Eat a McLobster(FAIL), attend PAX(COMPLETE), see the Springfield Armory(COMPLETE)

I'm off to the great state of New Hampshire to attend a 2 week course at Sig Sauer Academy which is like the Harvard of training schools and Uncle Sam is paying the tuition through the GI Bill.  I think this is going to be a great, but tiring trip.  To prepare for it I've been doing a lot of dryfire practice at home using my LASRAPP and SIRT system, attended a bunch of Front Sight classess in Las Vegas and classes elsewhere, and practicing at Koko Head and Puuloa quite a bit, and working to improve teaching my NRA Basic Pistol classes.  Sig Sauer is supposed to be a challenging school and I'm looking forward to doing it next week.  With my Glock.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 12:24:14 PM by zippz »

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 01:41:24 AM »
Stop over in Chicago.  I thought I'd be tolerant of the cold but it was cold just getting off the plane, 21 degrees with a layer of fresh snow.   I stopped at McDonald's to get breakfast and was attracted to the Steak Egg McMuffin.  So here's the review.  The steak is just a ground hamburger patty with onions.  So basically like a sausage mcmuffin.  Nothing special.

I did get a free mcgriddle game piece so hopefully it's a sign of good things to come.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 01:52:59 AM by zippz »

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Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 07:39:40 PM »
Stop over in Chicago.  I thought I'd be tolerant of the cold but it was cold just getting off the plane, 21 degrees with a layer of fresh snow.   I stopped at McDonald's to get breakfast and was attracted to the Steak Egg McMuffin.  So here's the review.  The steak is just a ground hamburger patty with onions.  So basically like a sausage mcmuffin.  Nothing special.

I did get a free mcgriddle game piece so hopefully it's a sign of good things to come.

Zippz!!! Hey goodluck out there buddy!!!
The only ism that has not failed me yet is skepticism.....

oldfart

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 09:17:43 PM »
Wow, lucky guy you get to go anykine places
What, Me Worry?

paka808

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 09:57:13 PM »
Be safe and have fun. :shaka:

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 05:42:02 PM »
I visited the Springfield Armory which is a National Park in Springfield, MA.  No relation to the fake Springfield Armory in IL.  The SA was built in 1778 as the US Arsenal to hold ammunition and to create small arms from the musket to the M14 when it closed in 1968.  M1 Garands, 1903s and other rifles and small arms were invented and manufactured here for the Army for the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, and other ones in between.  SA was also the innovator for the Industrial Revolution as many ideas and machinery were invented here and spread to the civilian sector and the world.  What once took a man 14 hours to make one unit, then took a machine one hour to make 14 units.  There were a lot of historical rifles here as you can see in the pictures.  The 2 hour drive from New Hampshire was worth it, though I don't think I'll be coming back again.

I'll post up the pictures in a blog when I get a chance.  Here's a few pictures to keep you busy.

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2016, 02:06:48 AM »
My home for 2 weeks.  In the 30s and wet.

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 03:14:01 PM »
Today is Day 1 of Semiauto Pistol Instructor with 9 students in the class.  4 are Police/Military firearm instructors, 1 is an NRA instructor, 1 is a bank security, and 2 are SSA staff.  The class is taught by breaking down all of the fundamentals into their basic parts and teaching us how to teach students in them using the Explain, Demonstrate, Imitate, and Practice (EDIP) teaching process.  We went over the basic rules for safety, stance, trigger squeeze, sights, and grip by doing it the right and wrong ways.  For example, using the weaver stance we fired leaning forward, straight up, and leaning backward to see the effects of recoil on accuracy and recovery.  Then we covered diagnosis and correction by shooting one hole drills and used various techniques to figure out the problems.  Everyone seemed to be about equal in shooting skill and were already experienced in firearms instruction.  Was a slow day with only 127 rounds fired but I learned a lot of tips which I can take back home to use for NRA pistol and CCW courses, training law enforcement and the military, and overall coaching.  To be prepared for this class, you should be able to hit a 7 inch circle consistently at 25 yards, be an expert in firearms operation, be an experienced firearms instructor with the credentials, and be able to diagnose and correct problems.  It was a windy cold day with temps in the 40's and a constant 15mph wind.
 
Equipment I'm using for this class is a Glock 22 w/9mm conversion barrel, 5 magazines, dual magpouch, bladetech OWB holster, 5.11 nylon gun belt.  Also using a cap, safety glasses, electronic hearing prot.  SSA can also loan firearms at no cost (except for buying their ammo).

The GI BIll is helping to pay for the class but this trip is still expensive.  I saved half the cost of a hotel by staying at a bread and breakfast I found on www.airbnb.com.  I rented the car in central Boston for half the cost compared to renting at the airport, and bought my ammo from a home FFL found on AR15.com, $1,000 compared to $1,400 buying at SSA.  For last minute stuff, I purchased firearms accessories and cold weather clothing at Kittery Trading Post which is like a Bass Pro with good prices.  I ate dinner at the Friendly Toast in Portsmouth, a touristy district on the coast about 20 minutes north of SSA.  The lobster haul (like eggs benedict with lobster) was awesome.

In other news, bad news, the McLobster is only available during the summer. >:(

Surf

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 04:12:10 PM »
When i did the Master courses it was in April also.  Raining and in the 30's.  Last day of shotgun started with rain enough to get soaked even with rain gear.  Then it snowed for about 2 hours prior and throughout the quals, enough to thoroughly freeze us.  Reloading a shotgun with cold weather gloves is a no go.  Good stuff.  Really liked the people in NH.

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2016, 04:42:58 PM »
The storm approaches tonight.  Rain tomorrow.

K30l4

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 04:46:31 PM »
Solid photos! Stay dry...

drck1000

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2016, 07:53:01 AM »
Thanks for the update!  Good stuff and sounds like a great experience!

Sounds like you did a LOT of research and saving on cost where you can.  Every little thing add up.  It's also good to make connections where you travel and I've been lucky to have met some awesome people when I traveled for classes and have maintained those friendships over the years. 

Hope the weather holds up for you.  I've been in 20-30 degree weather for classes and it was "ok" as long as I could stay dry.  I say "ok" as it wasn't ideal, but I could tolerate cold and dry.  Cold and wet is no bueno.  It was a good experience for me to train with stuff like gloves and layers of clothes and see how it affects you.  I thought I was prepared for the wet conditions with multiple pairs of gloves, but once one pair got wet, it helped somewhat. 

Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip and looking forward to hearing more. 

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2016, 03:23:22 PM »
Day 2 was wet and cold, fortunately it wasn't raining too hard..Each of us were assigned to teach a short 5 minute class on yesterday's topics using the EDIP pro cess and I had the one hole drill.  EDIP means to Educate and teach the students by giving them goals & expectations, purpose of why they need to know it, breaking everything down into steps, and using examples and real life experiences to highlight the importance of the lesson.  Demonstrate means you show them how to do it.  Imitate is the students copy and do what you demonstrated.  Practice is having them practice it.

Then we went into more fundamentals of reloads, timed shots, trigger reset, status checks, and other drills.  Like yesterday we broke down each of the drills into their parts and performed them in multiple ways  For example doing a chamber status check (see if it's loaded) we did it using the overhand grab, the V on the sights, pinching, clawing, front pinch, under pinch, and other ways.  Then we did it left handed.  The main lesson out of this is there is no perfect way to do things for everyone.  As an instructor we can suggest a preferred way, but if another way works well for a student then they can stick with it.  Instructors should provide different options in how to do things so that the students can see what works best and methods they can use in certain situations.

Another topic was the 3 sighting methods.  Flash sight picture where you fire as soon as you get your sight on target quickly..  Floating sight picture is where you quickly center the front sight dot in the middle of the rear sight "goal posts".  Then there is the traditional focused sight picture where you align the tops of the sights horizontally across and equal light between the rear and front sights for more precise shots.

We did a pre-qual evaluation.  Got a bunch of flyers outside of the 8" circle which are considered misses (the black tape).  I have to work on my sighting and draw speed a bit more.  My partner's magazine dropped on the ground due to not being seated correctly, so we had to ring the gong of shame.  Everyone in the class was shooting Double Action Only pistols, mainly Sigs, 1911, and M&Ps.  The only two students who had Sig DA/SA pistols didn't like using them so swapped them out for the DAO Sig 320's loaned by the academy.  Round count for the day was 242.

If you attend one of these courses check the weather.  Bring sweaters, rain jacket and pants,  baselayer shirt and pants, and gloves.  If you forget something then go to Kittery Trading Post and they'll have any outdoor stuff you'll need.


« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 04:59:26 PM by zippz »

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2016, 03:29:14 PM »
Besides the Sprinfgield Armory, Springfield's other claim to fame is being the home of Dr Seuss.  And they have the basketball hall of fame but I hate basketball.

Surf

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2016, 03:58:46 PM »
Everyone in the class was shooting Double Action Only pistols, mainly Sigs, 1911, and M&Ps.  The only two students who had Sig DA/SA pistols didn't like using them so swapped them out for the DAO Sig 320's loaned by the academy.
DA/SA Sigs are going the way of the Dinosaur, unless if you have predominantly cut your teeth on one and don't like to venture outside of your comfort zone.  Are you taking note of what the instructors at the Academy are shooting?  The only guy there specifically on the training staff that I knew shooting a DA/SA P226 was Adam P.  I think he is still shooting one.  This was also long prior to the P320.  I do know some of the other Staff outside of the Academy who shoot DA/SA Sigs but most had gone with the SAO P226 variant, but not sure now that the P320 is out.  If they let you shoot one of the SAO P226's the trigger is often not what you would find on an off the shelf Sig either. 

I will also admit that even when I went there to do the Masters Courses I shot a Glock and Kudos to Sig that it didn't affect my relationship that I now have with them.  I am now a big fan of the P320 and have run the Sig quals several times with it.  The P320 accuracy is Phenomenal and makes the 25y stage of fire seem even that much easier.   ;)

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2016, 01:42:08 AM »
The instructors are using the Sig 320's along with many of the students.

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 02:00:58 AM »
Day 3.  It was a nice sunny day with temps in the high 50's. Good T-shirt weather.  I taught a section on the high ready again using the EDIP method.  The drills for today were slicing the pie, barricades, alternate positions, one handed shooting, reloading and malfunctions (also one handed).  I never used the "inverted prone" before which is used to get low on the ground, like shooting under vehicles.  I didn't think it was possible to shoot using that bottom center small square on the barricade before until I used the inverted prone.  Another revelation was shooting one handed out of the holster.  I normally shoot with the gun straight up which usually shifts my shot group to the opposite side when I shoot quick.  Going with the SIG principles of doing what feels natural I canted my hand about 20 degrees and shot bullseyes everytime after that.

We had our first official qualification test today and I was nailing the bullseye getting a 5" group from the 5 to 25 yard lines through the course of shooting on the move, one handed, etc.  Except I loaded my magazine wrong for the malfunction drill and was able to fix it before I shot.  However I guess it distracted me so I threw the next shot off the silhouette which is an automatic fail.  Doh.

Dinner was at Flatbread Pizza in Portsmouth which was excellent.  Been spending a lot of money on dinner recently so may just go with italian tonight prepared by my personal Chef...Chef Boyardee.

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2016, 02:47:04 PM »
Day 4.  It was a hot and sunny 65 degrees.  Today we covered shooting on the move, forwards, backwards, and to the sides.  I found the fastest I could walk and keep all of my hits on target was a normal walking pace.  The trick is to walk smoothly, and fire at the moment the sights are on target.  Then we setup the bays for tomorrow's instruction.  A group of Navy sailors are coming in where we have to teach them how to shoot properly using all of the fundamentals and techniques.  Then we run the action bays for them which involve shooting while moving between barrels, falling plates, multiple target engagements, and other fun exercises.  We went through the bays ourselves and shot most of today's ammo.

Then we practiced the qualification course 3 times.  The previous day's target wasn't that great as I had 8 misses outside of the 8" circle due to being too tense and not being on my sights and jerking the trigger.  6 or more hits outside of the 8" circle (out of 25 hits) is a fail. i Today I did pretty well when I relaxed and slowed down about a half second on each stage and focused on my sights and trigger more.  My last target of the day had only 2 misses and a fairly tight group.  I'm feeling confident about my final test tomorrow.

Sig Sauer has a 20% student discount on all firearms and products.  I'm considering getting a Sig 320 which costs about $425 with the discount (minus FFL/shipping fees).  LE instructors get an even larger discount on firearms.

Round count for today was 675 rounds.  I had 2 jams in my Glock where a live round was halfway in the chamber.  Could be just dirty I suppose.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 03:00:05 PM by zippz »

Surf

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2016, 05:27:23 PM »
Sounds like you're having a good time!  Good job on only the 2 misses!  Times are a bit shorter on the Masters Course and the 2 miss is a pass and 3 misses is a fail, so good job there!  Are they holding a strict standard on breaking the line being an out?  They are usually pretty strict about hitting or even nicking the line, even if the round is on the inside of the circle.  The saying goes, if you need to ask if it is breaking the line it is out.  Have you used the target with the guy and the beard that has an inner 6" circle?  That would be the Sig instructor / adjunct standard.  I am also sure they told you that the guys on the targets were employees.   Kind of funny when I met one of them and had been shooting him all week.  I will note that Sig does have tight standards.

As for the pricing, that is good pricing and standard LE pricing.  I carried a P226 for 14 years and even so, I greatly prefer the P320.

I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Sig Sauer Academy in relation to Front Sight. 

zippz

Re: The Sig Sauer Saga
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2016, 12:14:19 PM »
I'm going to look into attending the Master courses next year, after I get more trigger time and classroom time in.  GI Bill is still paying for it. Shots breaking the 8" circle line are misses, and anything in the white is an automatic fail.  I was expecting to get a final test today, but apparently if you pass any of the tests then you pass the course.  We only used the "Bret" target, didn't see Bret though.  I forgot about military pricing, which is 25% off so I could get the same pistol at home and save on FFL fees.  Still love my 18 year old Glock.

Comparison to Front Sight.  I never took the FS instructor course so it's difficult to make a comparison.  If you pass the SSA course then you could easily teach the FS Defensive Pistol courses and should also be able to DG the FS Advance Tactical Handgun course and be able to teach it.  The SSA class was small with up to 10 students and 2 instructors.  The FS courses normally have 30+ students with 3 or 4 instructors.  Both have good instructors and a quality program.  Difficult to compare due to more than half of the SSA class was focused on how to teach.  The Sig Sauer course has more prestige and credibility over most other civilian firearm schools.