how about a pro 2a rally at the range?

Ren, I want to preface my following remarks by saying I'm not attacking you or your idea. But, regarding a pro-2A rally at the range: Why and to what ends?

To show other shooters "we" support the Second Amendment? That should be evident? To get together and strategize how to move forward with any advocacy efforts? Maybe print out and pass out to shooters using the range a flyer saying the anti-gun bills are going to pass because "we" couldn't come together as a group and muster an adequate defense against these incremental infringements of our rights?

I'm not saying we shouldn't, but just that we need to make sure we have a clear and obtainable goal in mind if we do. And, in that regard, how many of those here belong to some type of gun club or organization? IF you do, what did YOU do to get the other members of your organization to participate? Did you take time out of your "fun time" to talk to the guys (and girls) you shot with Saturday/Sunday or did you spend the entire day "doing what you do?"

/rant off

I am starting to think your way too. The roots are deep. Born and raised here, but still think of leaving.
My kid did. Saw no future here as backwards as this place is sometimes. Sold his boat, truck and all that he didn't need and left.
Drives trucks on the mainland now doing well.
That said, what is the next step? Do we have any more chances? where do these measures go from here? and how do we keep fighting?
If any of this gets to the guv, you know he will sign.
Aloha

we can let the guv know how we feel, http://governor.hawaii.gov/contact-us/

Any lawsuit forming to point out the FOPA violation of the rapback? maybe we can get the FBI to tell the state to that stuff is going right into the shredder.

I am starting to think your way too. The roots are deep. Born and raised here, but still think of leaving.
My kid did. Saw no future here as backwards as this place is sometimes. Sold his boat, truck and all that he didn't need and left.
Drives trucks on the mainland now doing well.
That said, what is the next step? Do we have any more chances? where do these measures go from here? and how do we keep fighting?
If any of this gets to the guv, you know he will sign.
Aloha

Appealing to the Governor is the last step. But, to be effective the response would have to be overwhelming and and in numbers sufficient to make him think his reelection may be in danger. And, to be honest, I don't think that will happen.
Instead, the gov will get 40 odd letters (from a base of a 100,000+ gun owners...) and feel pretty confident that we couldn't mount any effort that would threaten his continued political career. In fact, he may see the general lack of response as tacit approval of these bills (and even if he doesn't actually think that you can bet that's what he's going to say..."Judging from the miniscule number of gun owners that opposed these bills, the vast majority Hawaii's gun owners support our 'common sense' efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill persons..."). So, from a long-range, tactical point of view, it may be better to not send the gov anything at all....

Any lawsuit forming to point out the FOPA violation of the rapback? maybe we can get the FBI to tell the state to that stuff is going right into the shredder.

Gonna cost lot's of money. Where is it going to come from?

Appealing to the Governor is the last step. But, to be effective the response would have to be overwhelming and and in numbers sufficient to make him think his reelection may be in danger. And, to be honest, I don't think that will happen.
Instead, the gov will get 40 odd letters (from a base of a 100,000+ gun owners...) and feel pretty confident that we couldn't mount any effort that would threaten his continued political career. In fact, he may see the general lack of response as tacit approval of these bills (and even if he doesn't actually think that you can bet that's what he's going to say..."Judging from the miniscule number of gun owners that opposed these bills, the vast majority Hawaii's gun owners support our 'common sense' efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill persons..."). So, from a long-range, tactical point of view, it may be better to not send the gov anything at all....

I suspect that his re-election may be in danger anyway, but not from us. He hasn't got much going for him IMHO.

How many peopel supported them tho ?? when you look of the ratio of people against and for, to the people who knew these laws were even in play, the ratio is still in our faavor, The problem is we have a ruling class who think they know best and do what they want rather then what the people want.

True. We were ignored.

Apparently because we lack funding to buy enough politicians off. 

I'm willing to work my butt off, HRA is too, but if nobody gives a shit why should I bother? If this kind of crap legislation isn't enough to get people pissed off and willing to do something I don't know what is.

That said, what is the next step? Do we have any more chances? where do these measures go from here? and how do we keep fighting?
If any of this gets to the guv, you know he will sign.

I've written about this conundrum, or Catch-22 situation on other threads in the past. How many emails, how many testimony submissions, how many phone calls, how many in-person oral testimonies would be required to change the outcome of the votes on these types of infringing laws? We already had huge ratios in our favor in some cases, merely significant ratios in our favor in other cases, and the committees and entire body (house or senate) yield nearly unanimous votes against us. I suspect that no amount of testimony and/or contacts will make any difference in these outcomes unless it was enough to suggest to the legislators that they might not be re-elected in their district. The "catch" is that if there were really enough opposition to these bills by the voters to threaten their re-election, those politicians wouldn't have been elected by those voters in the first place (and no such bills would ever be introduced). Why would they vote in someone who clearly opposed upholding their sworn duty to uphold the voters' constitutionally-guaranteed rights? I seriously doubt that "shaming", as some have written, will turn the tide and inspire people to get involved in making their views known to their legislators, or even voting. What will? No idea. As I wrote last week I believe that the only thing that could possibly change things would be a huge influx of campaign spending money, and I don't see that happening. Ever. There will be no relief from the courts, as those (higher court) judges are all appointed by the politicians they (often) supposedly impartially interpret the law against.

These bills will be up for their final votes shortly, and yes, I will again send the emails and make the phone calls, but I predict the same outcome we saw today. Near unanimous disregard for our rights.   

The only way we're going to change this is to get pro 2A legislators elected.

The current crop of crawl on their belly for a buck, Obama sycophants is just going to keep on doing what the dimocrats have been doing for years.

The few good ones are getting older, and there doesn't seem to be anyone in line to replace them. The republican party is preparing to self destruct at the national level and it's a virtually empty shell here.

To organize any serious offensive against the dimocrats here would require millions, maybe tens of millions, every election cycle. Progress would be measured in single digit gains, we've lost too much political ground over the last 25 years to make it up in one or two election cycles. With all the screw ups with the rail, Obamacare, infrastructure and everything else, you would think that the republicans would be rolling with their hair on fire and putting more candidates out there to show they could change all this. But they're not. The few we have are superb, Sam Slom And Gene Ward for example, But they can't do it on their own, and the party doesn't  have the numbers to give them the support they need.

Unless we can pull a seriously huge rabbit out of an incredibly small hat, I don't see much of a change in the near future.

I've written about this conundrum, or Catch-22 situation on other threads in the past. How many emails, how many testimony submissions, how many phone calls, how many in-person oral testimonies would be required to change the outcome of the votes on these types of infringing laws? We already had huge ratios in our favor in some cases, merely significant ratios in our favor in other cases, and the committees and entire body (house or senate) yield nearly unanimous votes against us. I suspect that no amount of testimony and/or contacts will make any difference in these outcomes unless it was enough to suggest to the legislators that they might not be re-elected in their district. The "catch" is that if there were really enough opposition to these bills by the voters to threaten their re-election, those politicians wouldn't have been elected by those voters in the first place (and no such bills would ever be introduced). Why would they vote in someone who clearly opposed upholding their sworn duty to uphold the voters' constitutionally-guaranteed rights? I seriously doubt that "shaming", as some have written, will turn the tide and inspire people to get involved in making their views known to their legislators, or even voting. What will? No idea. As I wrote last week I believe that the only thing that could possibly change things would be a huge influx of campaign spending money, and I don't see that happening. Ever. There will be no relief from the courts, as those (higher court) judges are all appointed by the politicians they (often) supposedly impartially interpret the law against.

These bills will be up for their final votes shortly, and yes, I will again send the emails and make the phone calls, but I predict the same outcome we saw today. Near unanimous disregard for our rights.   

It is not "ratios" that will speak to the legislators, it is pure numbers. 40 pieces of submitted legislation, even if they are all unanimous and there are no testimony in opposition will be disregarded.
We have the numbers if everyone participated, but they never do...

The only way we're going to change this is to get pro 2A legislators elected.

I agree with you Edster48. Just want to put a slightly different take on this.

The solution does not necessarily lie in the R or L party as they are not a big factor right now for the state of Hawaii.

I just want to point out that we have some very staunch supporters for 2A rights in the D party as well, although they are more the exception than the rule.

We need to get more Pro-2a legislators on the D party elected as well.

The second amendment is not an issue that belongs to the R party alone. Although they may not have your interest in exercising it, the second amendment is a right that protects the liberal / democratic leaning folks as well.

It is not "ratios" that will speak to the legislators, it is pure numbers. 40 pieces of submitted legislation, even if they are all unanimous and there are no testimony in opposition will be disregarded.
We have the numbers if everyone participated, but they never do...

It's obviously NOT "pure numbers". Some of these bills had six (6) submitted testimonies in favor. You're saying that six is "pure numbers" and the opposing 40 or 70 or 106 are not "pure numbers"? What gives? Magic numbers or what?

Why should "our side" have to produce enormous numbers to hold sway, while "the other side" need not produce such numbers, or any numbers at all (according to you) and that "no (or almost no) visible public support" rules the roost?

Please explain that in the context of "consent of the governed". Or any context at all.

I doubt that ANY number at all from statewide testimony and emails/calls would make any difference at all. The only thing that matters to (almost all of) these politicians is what they believe the majority of voters in their district will do next election. I'd guess (and it's just a guess) that there is likely not one single district in Hawaii where even if every single gun owner voted or submitted testimony/emailed/called that it would make any difference. I could be wrong. But we'll never find out because that will never happen due to, uh, wait a second, what's it called?... oh, yeah, "reality".

AND, even if the "majority" wants to infringe individual rights (by supporting or allowing infringing laws to be passed), even if EVERYONE excepting one person wants to infringe everyone else's natural individual fundamental constitutionally-guaranteed civil rights the whole point of the Bill of Rights is that those rights are unalienable no matter what the tyranny of the majority does. You know, the soapbox, the ballot box, the jury box, and then that other box...

It's obviously NOT "pure numbers". Some of these bills had six (6) submitted testimonies in favor. You're saying that six is "pure numbers" and the opposing 40 or 70 or 106 are not "pure numbers"? What gives? Magic numbers or what?

Why should "our side" have to produce enormous numbers to hold sway, while "the other side" need not produce such numbers, or any numbers at all (according to you) and that "no (or almost no) visible public support" rules the roost?

Please explain that in the context of "consent of the governed". Or any context at all.

I doubt that ANY number at all from statewide testimony and emails/calls would make any difference at all. The only thing that matters to (almost all of) these politicians is what they believe the majority of voters in their district will do next election. I'd guess (and it's just a guess) that there is likely not one single district in Hawaii where even if every single gun owner voted or submitted testimony/emailed/called that it would make any difference. I could be wrong. But we'll never find out because that will never happen due to, uh, wait a second, what's it called?... oh, yeah, "reality".

AND, even if the "majority" wants to infringe individual rights (by supporting or allowing infringing laws to be passed), even if EVERYONE excepting one person wants to infringe everyone else's natural individual fundamental constitutionally-guaranteed civil rights the whole point of the Bill of Rights is that those rights are unalienable no matter what the tyranny of the majority does. You know, the soapbox, the ballot box, the jury box, and then that other box...

You can bitch and moan all you like about "how it should be" and that we shouldn't have to work so hard to prevent our rights from being infringed under the theory of a Constitutional Republic where the tyranny of the majority is muted by the protections of our Bill of Rights, but that just ain't reality.

There is no "magic number" but numbers matter. Calling and pressuring not just your own legislators matter. Contributing money to organizations that support your view matters. Does it go against the very basic instincts of those that believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the protections we believe it should protect? Yep, but standing up saying "it shouldn't be this way" will never change anything. Action is the answer. And, unfortunately we don't have enough of it....

It appears that we may have another opportunity to influence the outcome of these bills. Look for another message from HRA within the next hour.

You can bitch and moan all you like about "how it should be" and that we shouldn't have to work so hard to prevent our rights from being infringed under the theory of a Constitutional Republic where the tyranny of the majority is muted by the protections of our Bill of Rights, but that just ain't reality.

There is no "magic number" but numbers matter. Calling and pressuring not just your own legislators matter. Contributing money to organizations that support your view matters. Does it go against the very basic instincts of those that believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the protections we believe it should protect? Yep, but standing up saying "it shouldn't be this way" will never change anything. Action is the answer. And, unfortunately we don't have enough of it....

I never wrote anything at all about "how it should be" (or "shouldn't be"). YOU'RE the one writing about how more gun owners SHOULD get involved, yet you have no plan at all except to "bitch and moan" about it and tell them they should be "ashamed" to not do what you want them to do, even though there is no evidence that if they did what you attempt to shame them in to doing that it would have a beneficial outcome. You're hypothesizing about "how it should be" ("if "enough" of you were "active" legislation would go our way") without any data to support your claim.

Show me the percentage of gun owners in the voting age population of every Hawaii legislative district. Show me the percentage of gun owners compared to non-gun owners that are registered voters in every Hawaii legislative district. Now, show me how you're going to get whatever percentage of them you claim is necessary to accomplish your goals if they are active, active. Otherwise all you're doing is "bitching and moaning" and spewing hypotheticals about "how it should be".

It appears that we may have another opportunity to influence the outcome of these bills. Look for another message from HRA within the next hour.

Here it is:

WE'RE NOT DONE YET!!!  Over a thousand messages were sent to legislators asking them to oppose the anti-gun bills moving in the legislature.  We need to continue the push and let them know WE VOTE and we are asking them to OPPOSE these bills because they are flawed and unconstitutional.  Attached is a link to the NRA alert, where you can click on the TAKE ACTION button and letters will be sent on your behalf to your legislators.  You can email all representatives with reps@capitol.hawaii.gov and all senators at sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.  You should ALSO email AND call your district legislator and let them hear your concerns.  We can do this, but WE MUST STAND TOGETHER!!!
 
Link to the NRA alert:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160413/hawaii-four-anti-gun-bills-pass-floor-vote
 
 
HB 625 - Misdemeanor harrassment disqualifies a person from owning, possessing, or controlling a gun
 
HB 2629 and SB 2954 - Rap Back
 
HB 2632 - Emergency Hospitalization results in immediate removal of all firearms
 
SB 2647 - Ban on ivory sale, purchase, barter and possession
 
MAHALO
 
HARVEY GERWIG, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON and PRESIDENT, HRA
 

 
 

Here it is:

WE'RE NOT DONE YET!!!  Over a thousand messages were sent to legislators asking them to oppose the anti-gun bills moving in the legislature.  We need to continue the push and let them know WE VOTE and we are asking them to OPPOSE these bills because they are flawed and unconstitutional.  Attached is a link to the NRA alert, where you can click on the TAKE ACTION button and letters will be sent on your behalf to your legislators.  You can email all representatives with reps@capitol.hawaii.gov and all senators at sens@capitol.hawaii.gov.  You should ALSO email AND call your district legislator and let them hear your concerns.  We can do this, but WE MUST STAND TOGETHER!!!
 
Link to the NRA alert:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160413/hawaii-four-anti-gun-bills-pass-floor-vote
 
 
HB 625 - Misdemeanor harrassment disqualifies a person from owning, possessing, or controlling a gun
 
HB 2629 and SB 2954 - Rap Back
 
HB 2632 - Emergency Hospitalization results in immediate removal of all firearms
 
SB 2647 - Ban on ivory sale, purchase, barter and possession
 
MAHALO
 
HARVEY GERWIG, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON and PRESIDENT, HRA

posted to the hawaii firearms facebook groups i belong to
please post everywhere you can, guys

and then SEND EMAILS!!!!!

Done.  Super quick and easy.  If you've order something online, this is easier (don't need CC information  )

Done!
and shared on social media. 

Done this again. I also contacted my close friends who mostly don't own firearms.
I do speak of these bills when I attend our club activities and generate conversation - though it is preaching to the choir.
Out club secretary is also very active in emailing our members about these bills. His emails echo those of HRA as well. 

Take Action kicks Ass !

How do we set up something like this ?
Anyone know how ?

2AHawaii. Figure this out so we can do it from this forum.
(Easy for me to say.)

Would've been a good time for another Capitol rally.
(Hopefully we could've got twelve guys again)   
Especially against rap back.
Would they let us in the gallery or would we look like crazy gun owners.

Testimony doesn't appear to be working. IMO.
(But I'll keep giving it.)