I met Espero not too long ago, didn't seem like a bad guy. I do find it completely unacceptable that politicians champion legislation they haven't even read. I believe there should be criminal charges for this. If there is ever a lawsuit, I expect him to be held responsible.

 Was he wearing his silly kangol hat? Haha

Neither he, nor any legislator can be held personally responsible for the adverse effects of any bill they sponsor, advocate, or vote/pass...absolute and/or qualified immunity.

http://federalpracticemanual.org/chapter8/section2

I'm sorry, but I have a different perspective, based on my prior experience with him over the years. He did not choose to engage "us" rather he tolerated us crashing his little gun control party that stared with an "impromptu"  meeting at a bar (not that I have anything against that per se...) and had no intention of engaging or including "us" in the meeting. He was clearly in defensive mode and simply played the part of a seasoned politician....meaning he lied. He does not want the same result. He wants to create a name for himself and ascend to a higher office and he does not care how he gets there. If he thinks he can use the antigun forces to propel him upward, he will. Please do not be fooled by his words....he is the epitome of the of the crooked politician and the old meme of "How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips are moving."

That's not to say we shouldn't engage him...it just means you shouldn't go into that with unrealistic expectations or pin any hopes on his words.

...
I just meant no name calling in public.
Feel free to criticize wholeheartedly.

Was he wearing his silly kangol hat? Haha

I can confirm hat was present at the meeting

You guys have to remember (me included) that if you want to win the game first you have to understand the game.

This is not jousting, it's not 2 opposing forces clashing into each other trying to knock the other down, it's more like fencing, there is a lot of back and forth sparing before one strikes a blow.

Or to put it a way you guys might understand better, this is not a pistol target at 5 yards, this is long range sniping at a bowling bin a mile away, you have to take lots of things into account before you land a critical shot.

Do you think Espero would honor his word that he would welcome another meeting with our group?

Would he be willing to sponsor and introduce some pro-gun bills?

1. Change may issue to shall issue?

2. Funding for gun safety education to reduce accidents?

3. Gun range improvements?

Do you think Espero would honor his word that he would welcome another meeting with our group?

Would he be willing to sponsor and introduce some pro-gun bills?

In my e-mail today I asked him for help putting together somthing for firearms education in schools and securing funding, we shall see if he follows through

The only way to deal with Will Espero is to get him out of office and support his opponent. Will has been a pain in the butt for HPD and other law enforcement agencies by attempting solve the so-called police oversight problem, so I don't expect him to ever get a SHOPO endorsement. Maybe him jumping on the gun control bandwagon is a way for him to make amends with HPD. This is not his first hair brained idea of a law he pushed through.

As for Marcus Landsberg, he is a very good trial attorney, very reasonable, but somewhat left leaning in my opinion.

Maybe Will Espero should be asked about Hawaii's process to acquire firearms and see if he owns a gun. If he doesn't own a gun, he should attempt to sign up for Hunter Education . . . get his certificate, then go down and apply for a permit. He can do the waiting period,  go through the motions of getting a firearm (notionally or actually), travel back and forth to the police station. See how he likes paying for parking, putting in annual leave at work, and actually getting a spot in the Hunter Education training. This experience might be enlightening for Will Espero and some of the other anti-gun folks. Who knows, maybe it will change their mind when they realize that Hawaii's process is pretty in-depth and that a criminal isn't going to go through all those hoops to get a gun.

Maybe Will Espero should be asked about Hawaii's process to acquire firearms and see if he owns a gun. If he doesn't own a gun, he should attempt to sign up for Hunter Education . . . get his certificate, then go down and apply for a permit. He can do the waiting period,  go through the motions of getting a firearm (notionally or actually), travel back and forth to the police station. See how he likes paying for parking, putting in annual leave at work, and actually getting a spot in the Hunter Education training. This experience might be enlightening for Will Espero and some of the other anti-gun folks. Who knows, maybe it will change their mind when they realize that Hawaii's process is pretty in-depth and that a criminal isn't going to go through all those hoops to get a gun.

Will does own at least 1 firearm, he stated such at the meeting

Will does own at least 1 firearm, he stated such at the meeting

I don't understand people that own firearms and are anti-2A, unless they are politicians
I hate fence walkers. but they are perfect for politics.

I'd like to propose a bill being able to hold the state of Hawaii police department liable for any harm that comes to ANYONE that is harmed because they were not able to defend themselves.

Response from Espero re my previously posted email above:

Aloha [punaperson],

I understand the consequences of this measure as I believe it will add an extra layer of protection for our families and communities. I know it will not impact your constitutional right to purchase and own a gun as long as you are a law abiding citizen.

There was a question about how someone can get off the state's registration list once they have moved off island. (ie: military) I'm not sure there was a definitive answer to this question.

Since I am not an attorney, I rely on the state attorney's office for advise, guidance, and suggestions.  As you know, the state AG supports the measure as drafted.

The Senate & House Judiciary Committees also held hearings and felt compelled to pass the measure.

Thanks for asking.

Will Espero

* * * *
That doesn't really sound anything like what oldfart wrote: "he [Espero] deserves a little credit for engaging the public and admitting the embarrassing fact that he didn't know what was in that RAP BACK bill."

It sounds more like "Military might have an issue when they transfer out of Hawaii, but other than that, if you don't like it you can move (before you get entered into the system... and since you cannot be "unregistered" as a firearm owner in Hawaii even if you move, that may not help if we decide to register all existing gun owners whether they ever buy another gun after the law is functional or not). Other than that, it's all good."

Was he wearing his silly kangol hat? Haha

of course...

Stepped out the house stopped short, oh no
Went back in I forgot my kangol

I'd like to propose a bill being able to hold the state of Hawaii police department liable for any harm that comes to ANYONE that is harmed because they were not able to defend themselves.

They all (legislators and law enforcement) have been granted (by themselves in the case of th legislature) some form of immunity, unless one can prove some kind of direct civil rights violation ("police brutality", etc.).

There is already longstanding Supreme Court precedent that law enforcement is not responsible for protecting any individual person or group of people, but only for protecting the "community in general". A cop can stand there after responding to your 911 call and watch a criminal torture and murder you and they are not liable for their lack of action to stop the criminal acts. That fact is actually an argument for why we should be allowed our right to bear firearms outside our homes since even if they could possibly protect us at the moment of a criminal assault (extremely unlikely they'd be there), they have no duty to do so, and no penalty for not doing so.

Response from Espero re my previously posted email above:

Aloha [punaperson],

I understand the consequences of this measure as I believe it will add an extra layer of protection for our families and communities. I know it will not impact your constitutional right to purchase and own a gun as long as you are a law abiding citizen.

There was a question about how someone can get off the state's registration list once they have moved off island. (ie: military) I'm not sure there was a definitive answer to this question.

Since I am not an attorney, I rely on the state attorney's office for advise, guidance, and suggestions.  As you know, the state AG supports the measure as drafted.

The Senate & House Judiciary Committees also held hearings and felt compelled to pass the measure.

Thanks for asking.

Will Espero

* * * *
That doesn't really sound anything like what oldfart wrote: "he [Espero] deserves a little credit for engaging the public and admitting the embarrassing fact that he didn't know what was in that RAP BACK bill."

It sounds more like "Military might have an issue when they transfer out of Hawaii, but other than that, if you don't like it you can move (before you get entered into the system... and since you cannot be "unregistered" as a firearm owner in Hawaii even if you move, that may not help if we decide to register all existing gun owners whether they ever buy another gun after the law is functional or not). Other than that, it's all good."

that's a polite & PC way of saying that I passed the measure despite the concerns you have. PERIOD.

So i to got my reply and it reads :

Aloha Andrew,
 
Thanks for your comments last night.  Mandating gun education would not pass in my opinion.  I’m trying to get financial literacy mandated but with no luck to date.  May I suggest you approach the DOE and ask if you or the NRA/HRA can go into schools to teach kids at your cost.  Obviously, parental approval would be required.  Not sure how DOE would react but my guess is not too open to the idea.
 
The open house at the shooting range recently is a good idea.  Maybe that can be done more often like once a month.  You can also try Boys and Girls Club,  YMCA, or Boy Scouts but I’m not sure gun education is a priority for them.  Doesn’t hurt to ask.
 
I’ll check with HPD about your comments below.
 
Have a good day.
 
Will Espero

---

To which i have replied :

So there is the major problem with getting meaningful gun safety laws in place, Its hard to do so why bother ?. Its easier to put emotion pulling laws into the system that do nothing to increase safety but give an illusion of doing so. Surely education children in the potential dangers and safety of firearms should be a priority we teach most basic safety minded things in this age group. We teach Stop drop and roll, Stranger danger, see something say something, sexual education and safety and of course Lock down drills.
Why are we not taking the precaution of teaching them that a firearm is not a toy should no be played with? I believe the current method of teaching is STOP, dont touch it, LEAVE the area, TELL an adult. These 3 thinks could save a child's life but yet the school systems wont teach them because they would rather pretend that guns  dont exist.

Wouldn't you like to be able to stand on our side next time a tragic accident like this happens in Hawaii and say WE ASKED FOR EDUCATION ? instead of being the name of the senator who said "I did nothing because i did not think a bill would pass ?"

All we are looking for is the same as you, Meaningful gun safety law which have real results.

Thanks
Andrew
 

Got my reply,


Andrew,
 
Make a proposal to the DOE/BOE.  That’s where you start.
 
There are many areas one can argue that needs teaching:  Financial Literacy, Dangers of internet, Raising a child, Anger management, Computer literacy, Multi-Cultural tolerance, etc. etc.
 
Start with a proposal Andrew.
 
That’s my advise.  See if the NRA/HRA will finance it.  Or you can finance it with a pilot program in a school willing to try.
 
I’ve given you a road map.  See where it goes.
 
Also, do a free series on Olelo.  That can be done.  That would not be rejected.  There’s another way to educate not only children but many adults too.  I would watch it.
 
WE

The only way Will Espero's idea makes sense is if he runs for Congress again during the next election cycle and pulls in liberal and anti-gun donors. This, along with police reform will be his platform for Congressional run.

I'm sorry, but I don't see why we are trying to "work" with dude after the fact he put up and rammed through these bills even though he doesn't even know what they are about!  No matter if they are unconstitutional or illegal or what.

They all (legislators and law enforcement) have been granted (by themselves in the case of th legislature) some form of immunity, unless one can prove some kind of direct civil rights violation ("police brutality", etc.).

There is already longstanding Supreme Court precedent that law enforcement is not responsible for protecting any individual person or group of people, but only for protecting the "community in general". A cop can stand there after responding to your 911 call and watch a criminal torture and murder you and they are not liable for their lack of action to stop the criminal acts. That fact is actually an argument for why we should be allowed our right to bear firearms outside our homes since even if they could possibly protect us at the moment of a criminal assault (extremely unlikely they'd be there), they have no duty to do so, and no penalty for not doing so.

The right to protect ourselves in public was also one of those "longstanding" constitutional rights as well.