Isn't that in part what HDF and HRA is for ?

I'm in though if I'm a party with standing.

Thanks for the reply Wolfwood !
(Answered the bat call)

I don't think HRA doesn't have the resources...remember they get $20 in membership fees a year.  I don't know what their membership is...maybe 10,000?  That would be $200,000 a year.  Appeals cost hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars depending how far up it goes.

Yeah. But you can be awarded fees and costs if you prevail.
(At each level if I'm not mistaken)

And hence my in part part of the statement.

Don't expect them to fully fund it.

My thing is this.  This RAPBACK system requires a fee.  If they want to enter every person since registration started then every person in that registration database would be charged this fee.

I am not paying it.  I am done with this state.  So if they did enter everyone then is the state paying for it all?

I don't think the FBI charges law enforcement agencies for the service. Maybe some other private organizations that might be using it.

And the State registration database has already been computerized. All they have to do is send the computer files to the FBI.

So is this for all new registration or does this mean that all existing firearm holders will need to be placed on this list?

I don't think the FBI charges law enforcement agencies for the service. Maybe some other private organizations that might be using it.

And the State registration database has already been computerized. All they have to do is send the computer files to the FBI.

If you read the first post the database is a private non profit company.

So is this for all new registration or does this mean that all existing firearm holders will need to be placed on this list?

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to legalese... NIcked this from the actual document:

  2.  By amending subsection (i) to read:

     "(i)  No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit, in an amount equal to the fee [actually] charged by the [Federal Bureau of Investigation to the issuing police department for a fingerprint check in connection with that application or permit.] Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.  In the case of a joint application, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person to whom no previous permit has been issued."

I've really gotta get smarter on this crap...

I see the various "commonsense gun safety regulation" organizations are heralding the Hawaii law-abiding firearm owner mandated RapBack enrollment law as "groundbreaking" and a "role model" for other states. At least we're first in something. Not sure that being Number One in totalitarian surveillance-state civil-rights-suppression is a plus in my book. Once we're all covered (and "out of the way"?) they will come for the people advocating all this stuff. And they'll be "surprised" and say crap like "We never thought this could happen here". Yeah. Right. 

I'm really waiting to see what the experts have to say about this (stuff we don't already know is BS)...

Couple of things I noticed are: No mention of/or the term "Retroactive" used as far as I can see; and out of state reg appears same-same (maybe I missed details on that one).

My biggest concern is this; what happens when there's a data breach and our once secure info becomes a road map to our door step for those seeking access to firearms.

Ready to fight this, where do we start...?

Did anyone contact the NRA seeking help already?

last time I was in line at HPD, I overheard some people saying that later this year there will be a fee to register firearms
maybe this is what they were talking about.

In the criminal data base w/o committing a crime ?
Sounds like defamation of character to me.   

with all this crap we should have gun brokers like real estate brokers....escrow, etc.

The Firearms Owners Protection Act forbids any national registry:
so....illegal right?

The Act also forbade the U.S. Government agency from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to their owners, the specific language of this law (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926) being:

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

Rick and I are thinking about it.
It appears to me that federal law preempts this new law

The article said the State Attorney General and other brilliant minds of the state of Hawaii's legal department  carefully reviewed this bill to make sure it was legal.  I am not paying a retroactive fee if there is one.  I will not buy another gun while this law is in existence.  I will have to try and get one of my friends to sell me an legally unregistered firearm purchased before 1994.  Time to start buying 80% receivers and jigs and the components to complete an AR15 before the state starts placing restrictions on those.

I'm really waiting to see what the experts have to say about this (stuff we don't already know is BS)...

Couple of things I noticed are: No mention of/or the term "Retroactive" used as far as I can see; and out of state reg appears same-same (maybe I missed details on that one).

My biggest concern is this; what happens when there's a data breach and our once secure info becomes a road map to our door step for those seeking access to firearms.

Ready to fight this, where do we start...?

That would be my biggest concern about the new law as well. The more the data gets passed around to who knows who, the more likely a hacker will be able to steal it. I could even see all of the data being made public.

Fox News article today: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/24/hawaii-becomes-first-state-to-put-gun-owners-in-federal-database.html

Governor's press release: http://governor.hawaii.gov/newsroom/governors-office-news-release-hawaii-becomes-first-state-in-nation-to-enroll-firearms-owners-in-centralized-information-system/

With the other 2 bills being signed into law as well, I wonder how many Hawaii residents have now been disqualified ?

Too bad we don't have a press that will actually ask the relevant questions.

The article said the State Attorney General and other brilliant minds of the state of Hawaii's legal department  carefully reviewed this bill to make sure it was legal.  I am not paying a retroactive fee if there is one.  I will not buy another gun while this law is in existence.  I will have to try and get one of my friends to sell me an legally unregistered firearm purchased before 1994.  Time to start buying 80% receivers and jigs and the components to complete an AR15 before the state starts placing restrictions on those.

Buying a pre 1994 gun and not registering it would still be illegal.

How is it legal for the State of Hawaii to keep a firearm database violating FOPA.


The Act also forbade the U.S. Government agency from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to tyheir owners, the specific language of this law (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926) being:

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

From a purely analytical perspective, the RAP-BACK system requires NOTIFICATION at the time a person applies for something informing the applicant they will be added into the system for monitoring.

Anyone who registered firearms before HPD starts notifying new applicants can't be retroactively added to RAP-BACK. 

So, without some round-about way of providing notification of RAP-BACK enrollment to existing registrants, I can't see how they could add all those people to RAP-BACK legally.



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