Does anyone know if we have a lead on this?

Also does anyone know for sure what the actual civil procedure is to overturn or amend this bill.

Been looking and I cant find anything. Ill be posting a response video in the next few days on my channel.

Pm London he seems to be poised for such a spear

Pm London he seems to be poised for such a spear

?


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I spoke with Wolfwood yesterday. It's too early.

Until the AG signs off on it and it's implemented they haven't violated anything. So, there's still a very small chance that upon review they will find the law untenable. Personally, I think the governor was rushed into signing the bill before the legal review by his "team" was complete due to political pressure over the Orlando terrorist incident, but that's speculation on my part. Last night Espero said that his understanding was that the AG felt he could defend the law, although throughout the evening it became clear that he { Espero } hadn't really thought through the legal ramifications regarding due process and violation of federal statute. Thanks to London 808 we know that the probable timeline is around the end of the year before we see any attempt to implement.

Once they do decide to implement, our only recourse is the courts. There are several of us that have contacted him regarding this and he's contacted the HRA to see about bringing them on board. I understand the NRA is also looking at it.

In the interim we're going to need to raise funds as Wolfwood doesn't want to take it on on a contingency basis due to the fact that this will undoubtedly take years, just like CCW. I don't blame him. I'll be working on this in the next week or so and when I have it set up I'll post info on where to send donations.

Hope that answers your questions for now. 

And that I think is what answer in one crack that everyone wanted to hear.

Thanks you edster.

LONDON808

He understands the policies and has gone to court with Wolfwood and won its case.

OK, So i Just now got of the phone with Wolfwood, If as a group we want to go ahead and fight this were going to need to raise funds, The reason they couldn't take this on contingency (they take the case and wait for the courts to pay them) is because it might take months into years to litigate and with that they basically be operating out of pocket. I asked Wolfwood how much they would need to take this up and the magic number is $15k.

The problem is as edster stated, Untill they implement they system and we see how its going to work, were not sure what is going to happen, That being said any funds rasied could be used to fight any future 2A violation if for example they realize that rapback is illegal and cant be implemented.

NRA defense fund


https://www.nradefensefund.org

und supports litigation involving significant legal issues relating to the right to keep and bear arms.

Among the Fund's activities are:

 

Defense of persons charged with criminal violations of federal, state, and local laws that prohibit the acquisition or possession of firearms by peaceful and honest Americans
Civil challenges to federal, state, and local laws that prohibit a law-abiding citizen or class of citizens from possessing or using firearms
Opposition to unlawful forfeitures of firearms seized by federal, state, or local authorities in violation of the Fifth or Fourteenth Amendments
Civil actions against federal, state, and local authorities who, while enforcing unfair gun laws, violate citizens' rights under the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments
Challenges to administrative interpretations of federal, state, and local laws that infringe the right to keep and bear arms guaranteed by the Common Law, the Constitution of the United States, or the constitutions of various states
Challenges to administrative actions denying or restricting a citizen's right to possess or carry firearms.

NRA defense fund


https://www.nradefensefund.org

I think its important to keep the funsa local so they can be used for local issues, Although the NRA does a lot of good things with such a small population it does not feel like they really care about Hawaii

Im sure on this case they would fight, as it can spread to other states...

Im sure on this case they would fight, as it can spread to other states...

Yeah I think the NRA would help us on this.  Last thing they want is to set a precedent.

I am currently off island and not monitoring much except essentials. I saw this and felt the need to post.

I have mentioned this before. We are not going to be able to get much farther without having a legitimate tax exempt non profit organization. Otherwise any money we raise is subject to taxes. Which will diminish our efforts. It also will show we are serious about raising money and working within the legal system.

When I get back I'll look into what it takes to get an organization started. In the meantime I would like to propose that once a non profit is formed we can quickly and easily develop an eBay like website and auction off donations. We can also accept donations. Make it easy by accepting PayPal, credit cards, etc. We can span out to Facebook and other social media.

Isn't the HDF a non profit organization? Are they willing to step up and help us with raising funds and accepting donations for fighting this?

The big thing to me is that it will also prevent guys like WE knowing exactly how many (or how few) people we actually represent. I think that is important because right now he has only received a few e-mails from a few people. If we can come up with say $15k it might scare people like him that we have greater numbers than what we may actually have.

Rather than starting another non-profit shouldn't we be supporting the existing organizations that have an established legislative arm and that look after our 2A rights?
As I've advocated before we should all be members of both HRA and HDF and support those organizations, not only with time (volunteering), but financially (as best we can afford) for they are our best bet and best defense against our elected idiots.
NRA needs our support as well regardless of differences of opinion on their policies/positions.

Just thinking that establishing another group will spread everything too thin and may diminish the efforts as a whole

jmo

Rather than starting another non-profit shouldn't we be supporting the existing organizations that have an established legislative arm and that look after our 2A rights?
As I've advocated before we should all be members of both HRA and HDF and support those organizations, not only with time (volunteering), but financially (as best we can afford) for they are our best bet and best defense against our elected idiots.
NRA needs our support as well regardless of differences of opinion on their policies/positions.

Just thinking that establishing another group will spread everything too thin and may diminish the efforts as a whole

jmo

BTW, NRA Life Memeber, HRA Member and HDF Member here.

I believe the question has been asked a few months ago. What is the NRA, HRA and the HDF doing to help us defend ourselves against RAP Back and the other laws that were recently passed and have been passed over the years? What is the long term plan of these 3 organizations to help us in our fight? All we have heard from them is crickets. Look, Chris Baker did something great almost singlehandedly. He formed the HDF and accomplished something great even if the courts ruled against us. He (they) raised money and hired a lawyer to fight for us. We still have the lawyer who is willing and experienced. I believe this is the correct path for us.

I think it is time for a non profit organization (or a PAC?) that is much more politically and legally motivated than the organizations mentioned above to be formed that supports and defends us 2A supporters. The HRA does what they feel is the right thing for them/us politically. But they are not doing more because of lack of support and organization. I think that a non profit that is organized and run correctly whose sole purpose is to raise money for a legal fund stands a better chance of getting more accomplished by paying a lawyer to defend us than the few organizations are currently doing. JMHO 

BTW, NRA Life Memeber, HRA Member and HDF Member here.

I believe the question has been asked a few months ago. What is the NRA, HRA and the HDF doing to help us defend ourselves against RAP Back and the other laws that were recently passed and have been passed over the years? What is the long term plan of these 3 organizations to help us in our fight? All we have heard from them is crickets. Look, Chris Baker did something great almost singlehandedly. He formed the HDF and accomplished something great even if the courts ruled against us. He (they) raised money and hired a lawyer to fight for us. We still have the lawyer who is willing and experienced. I believe this is the correct path for us.

I think it is time for a non profit organization (or a PAC?) that is much more politically and legally motivated than the organizations mentioned above to be formed that supports and defends us 2A supporters. The HRA does what they feel is the right thing for them/us politically. But they are not doing more because of lack of support and organization. I think that a non profit that is organized and run correctly whose sole purpose is to raise money for a legal fund stands a better chance of getting more accomplished by paying a lawyer to defend us than the few organizations are currently doing. JMHO 

I know many HRA board members and they all do a lot in terms of supporting the 2A and shooting sports in Hawaii in general.  Remember that all of them (or at least the ones that I know) have full time jobs and many of them have very demanding schedules.  They make time regardless.  Is the organization perfect?  No, but they are doing what they can.

Regarding organization, the shooting "community" in Hawaii is very fragmented.  I was at the rifle range the Friday before SSF and was sighting in a rifle before the Friday setup.  While I was there, a Harvey and another HRA volunteer showed up early to start setting up.  I overheard a couple of the RSOs and a few rifle range "regulars" talking about what they were witnessing.  They all knew that was HRA for the setup for the SSF and I'll just say that their comments were more of "looking down upon" and ridiculing than of support.  They are commenting on "how is one guy supposed to unload all that stuff by themselves", yet did not even think to help him.  Even though it was well before the set time that we were supposed to be there to start the setup, I packed up my stuff and started to help. 

Then there's the shotgunners separate from the black powder, separate from the tactical guys.  Yes, like we discussed in the skeet/trap thread, not ALL of them are like that and I've gotten to know many shotgun/skeet/trap guys that are very friendly and accommodating (Laughlin is very much one of them).  However, head up to SRGC and you'll see a lot more of how the different factions bicker and don't get along.  There is still very much the good 'ol boyz culture still going strong.  May not apply to many/most here, but it's very much still alive. 

Me personally?  I am interested in all aspects of shooting.  While my main interest is in competition shooting and defensive shooting, I enjoy shooting clays.  I started down the path of precision shooting, but got side tracked there.  I am very much into ARs and AKs, but I also have interest in the cowboy stuff as well as stuff like M1As, M1 Carbines, etc.  I volunteer with HRA and I've participated in HDF before, but not recently.  More due to shooting more competition than not wanting to participate.  That said, there are many shooters that I talk to and we share the wonder "why we all can't get along toward a common goal"? 

Maybe this non-profit coalition is a good way to consolidate all of that together.  However, many already "give at the office" and might already be spread thin. 

Anyways, just venting. . .

I think that a non profit that is organized and run correctly whose sole purpose is to raise money for a legal fund stands a better chance.

A single non-profit legal defense fund would channel more energy where it needs to go rather than let the factions fight amongst themselves about the details. The individual organizations can mobilize members and serve each communities' needs, but it can be counterproductive to ask people to support organizations with unclear goals who they may not agree or have anything in common with.

Hawaii Second Amendment Legal Fund (or something more catchy) would have one job and one job only. Pay lawyers to raise a stink so that the AG's aren't so easily swayed by career politicians who want to make a name for themselves at the expense of our safety and privacy. Who knows. Maybe at some point we might actually win some rights back.

Aloha all - getting more settled in B.I. and catching up a bit here.  Yes many factions ie. I just learned about new FB group "Hawaii Sportsmen's Alliance" that we should reach out to join together.  I like the idea of the new non-profit org to concentrate collective efforts.   Many many gun owners here w/o representation as the independent spirit is alive and well!  That is a good thing but need to have them part of the group.  one couple didn't know much about the HRA.  so there's work to be done. 

It ain't over till it's over and it's only just begun.
Aloha!

also just heard one of the owners of 4WP is on B.I.  has attorney?  they won some 2A case before?  no contact info but I'd love to get a hold of him with wolfwood!