This happened in my neighborhood Wednesday morning, just a half a block away:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/135218173.html

I personally did not hear the screams, nor did my wife. If I had, I would have joined the three who went to the woman's rescue. However, since this is Hawaii, and the only people issued concealed (or open) carry are the police, I would have had to leave my trusty P220 behind. My question is, would you have done the same? What would you have taken with you if you were unable to take a firearm?  What would have happened to me had I taken my pistol?  I know what the law is.  I just want some practical advice.  BTW, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/135298793.html?id=135298793

Good question...
Link didn't work for some reason.

I corrected the link in my original post.  Thanks for checking and adding the follow-on story.  They showed the perp on KITV-4 last night.  His face was pretty messed up from the rescuer's beating on him.  Pretty brave of those three guys to came to the woman's rescue. To interrupt an assult, unarmed, is brave in my book.  My hat goes off to them.  Hopefully I'll see them some day in the neighborhood so I can thank them personally.

Uhh...personally, my own neighborhood, they're fighting and chest-beating and arguing at all hours of the day. They'll no joke yell at each other full on at 2am. They also have all sorts of people stopping by for 10 minutes and blocking my friggin driveway, also at all hours of the day. They're bad people, and I really don't care if bad things happened to them. I wouldn't help them. If I hear a full on fight/shootout or a woman screaming (from that side of the fence anyway), I hope by morning the police would have thinned those pack of dogs over there and throw someone in jail, though I don't have much faith in that....police go there repeatedly and just slap their hand and tell them to stop. Fighting. Arguing. Music playing. Selling drugs. Yeah they can burn.

My side of the fence though, I may help. If I can hear a guarantee rape or a murder going on (danger to life or limb), I'll help and I'll probably bring a firearm. If it's just regular domestics, not my business enough to intervene.

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

Because it is a waste of his time. When the cops show up, everyone is quiet. 

Brah, Wut Noise? I nevah hearum.

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 12:33:22 PM

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

Because it is a waste of his time. When the cops show up, everyone is quiet. 

Brah, Wut Noise? I nevah hearum.

I look at it as due diligence. It may not end the noise for good, but you have to have it on record that you took the steps.

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

I used to call 911...
"Police, fire, or ambulance?"
"Police."
"Is this an emergency?"
"Yes" for fighting sounds, "No" for loud music.

Loud music or sitting outside in their driveway talking loud story and playing instruments at 12:00am, of course I still have to call 911.

For fighting and such, I stopped bothering calling. Calling the police only has a short-term delay of the events recurring again. It's come to the point where I think they expect the neighbors (us) to call the police, to rely on the police to break up their personal disagreements and act as nanny mediators. Last year or couple years ago there was a pretty bad fight where there was a bunch of people on their driveway and one of those societal trash pulled out a sharp object (box cutter I think) and slashed the other trash up. It has been relatively quiet compared to before that event. Much more efficient than all the times I've ever called the police. My only regret is that the neighbors upstairs both had boyfriends that apparently went out to help break up the fight when it got bad and ended the conflict. I can only imagine how much quieter it would be today if they hadn't meddled.

Obvious question: Have you looked at other neighborhoods to move to?

oh we have. I won't say we "can't" move, because I hate hearing that poor excuse from other people who are woe-is-me boohooing. One day we'd like to move. It can be hard to find something that is not charging more than $1000 (our current rent) and allows pets, but it's certainly doable if we put our mind to it and apply ourselves. The neighbors are a pretty big annoyance, but not exactly threatening our livelihood. They don't talk to our side of the fence and don't come to look for trouble with us, even though our driveways run side by side. When I first moved there 5 years ago, I walked over there and asked the kid nicely to turn his music down while he was sitting in his car. He just looked at me and closed his eyes and ignored me. I took his license plate number but didn't call the police. He turned the music down after a few minutes though. Guess he didn't want any cops showing up while he's buying his drugs from his dealer.

It's easier to hope they hurt each other permanently than us go through the big headache of moving everything. Those animals will act the same regardless of what I hope, so I won't feel bad when it finally happens again.

Uhh...personally, my own neighborhood, they're fighting and chest-beating and arguing at all hours of the day. They'll no joke yell at each other full on at 2am. They also have all sorts of people stopping by for 10 minutes and blocking my friggin driveway, also at all hours of the day. They're bad people, and I really don't care if bad things happened to them. I wouldn't help them. If I hear a full on fight/shootout or a woman screaming (from that side of the fence anyway), I hope by morning the police would have thinned those pack of dogs over there and throw someone in jail, though I don't have much faith in that....police go there repeatedly and just slap their hand and tell them to stop. Fighting. Arguing. Music playing. Selling drugs. Yeah they can burn.

My side of the fence though, I may help. If I can hear a guarantee rape or a murder going on (danger to life or limb), I'll help and I'll probably bring a firearm. If it's just regular domestics, not my business enough to intervene.

Huuum...  You must live near my place.  Nah, but seriously.  If you bring a gun off your property you'll get into heat. If the perp goes on your property you'll probably catch heat too. Sorry to say.

I wish Hawaii would be more self defense friendly.

Steve, welcome to the forum!

Getting back to Steve's original question, I think you need to consider how much fallout you want to deal with after the fact. You will have to defend your actions in a court of law, and it's tricky business. If you cannot prove that you acted in precisely the amount of force necessary to the situation, you could end up going to jail. Even if you don't go to jail, the scumbag and his family can sue you in a civil court.

I hate to say it, but simply yelling "Help! Someone's being attacked! I'm calling 911!" and continuing to draw attention to the situation might be the best thing you can do for yourself and the victim.

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 12:33:22 PM

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

Because it is a waste of his time. When the cops show up, everyone is quiet. 

Brah, Wut Noise? I nevah hearum.

Be careful Voodu, if you anger princess buglegirl, she'll report you to the moderators.   

A wise man once wrote something about "avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation".

Quote from: vooduchikn on December 09, 2011, 12:38:14 PM

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 12:33:22 PM

Dregs, why don't you call 911 with a noise complaint? (For those who don't know, Honolulu uses 911 for non-emergency calls.)

Because it is a waste of his time. When the cops show up, everyone is quiet. 

Brah, Wut Noise? I nevah hearum.

Be careful Voodu, if you anger princess buglegirl, she'll report you to the moderators.   

|

Thanks for the advice...

Getting back to Steve's original question, I think you need to consider how much fallout you want to deal with after the fact. You will have to defend your actions in a court of law, and it's tricky business. If you cannot prove that you acted in precisely the amount of force necessary to the situation, you could end up going to jail. Even if you don't go to jail, the scumbag and his family can sue you in a civil court.

I hate to say it, but simply yelling "Help! Someone's being attacked! I'm calling 911!" and continuing to draw attention to the situation might be the best thing you can do for yourself and the victim.

I guess that's why so many people don't get involved.  I live in a high rise apartment.  No one would know whether or not I heard anything or not.  I'd just have to live with my conscience.  We get domestic arguments in our neighborhood fairly often, but I don't call the police until the f*** you's get loud enough.

Thanks for the advice.

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 03:41:08 PM

Getting back to Steve's original question, I think you need to consider how much fallout you want to deal with after the fact. You will have to defend your actions in a court of law, and it's tricky business. If you cannot prove that you acted in precisely the amount of force necessary to the situation, you could end up going to jail. Even if you don't go to jail, the scumbag and his family can sue you in a civil court.

I hate to say it, but simply yelling "Help! Someone's being attacked! I'm calling 911!" and continuing to draw attention to the situation might be the best thing you can do for yourself and the victim.

I guess that's why so many people don't get involved.  I live in a high rise apartment.  No one would know whether or not I heard anything or not.  I'd just have to live with my conscience.  We get domestic arguments in our neighborhood fairly often, but I don't call the police until the f*** you's get loud enough.

Thanks for the advice.

Being punished for getting involved. One of the many benefits of living in a nanny state. 

Quote from: Steve2Hawaii on December 09, 2011, 04:57:45 PM

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 03:41:08 PM

Getting back to Steve's original question, I think you need to consider how much fallout you want to deal with after the fact. You will have to defend your actions in a court of law, and it's tricky business. If you cannot prove that you acted in precisely the amount of force necessary to the situation, you could end up going to jail. Even if you don't go to jail, the scumbag and his family can sue you in a civil court.

I hate to say it, but simply yelling "Help! Someone's being attacked! I'm calling 911!" and continuing to draw attention to the situation might be the best thing you can do for yourself and the victim.

I guess that's why so many people don't get involved.  I live in a high rise apartment.  No one would know whether or not I heard anything or not.  I'd just have to live with my conscience.  We get domestic arguments in our neighborhood fairly often, but I don't call the police until the f*** you's get loud enough.

Thanks for the advice.

Being punished for getting involved. One of the many benefits of living in a nanny state. 

Hawaii, love it or LEAVE it.

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 05:31:52 PM

Quote from: Steve2Hawaii on December 09, 2011, 04:57:45 PM

Quote from: antoinebugleboy on December 09, 2011, 03:41:08 PM

Getting back to Steve's original question, I think you need to consider how much fallout you want to deal with after the fact. You will have to defend your actions in a court of law, and it's tricky business. If you cannot prove that you acted in precisely the amount of force necessary to the situation, you could end up going to jail. Even if you don't go to jail, the scumbag and his family can sue you in a civil court.

I hate to say it, but simply yelling "Help! Someone's being attacked! I'm calling 911!" and continuing to draw attention to the situation might be the best thing you can do for yourself and the victim.

I guess that's why so many people don't get involved.  I live in a high rise apartment.  No one would know whether or not I heard anything or not.  I'd just have to live with my conscience.  We get domestic arguments in our neighborhood fairly often, but I don't call the police until the f*** you's get loud enough.

Thanks for the advice.

Being punished for getting involved. One of the many benefits of living in a nanny state. 

Hawaii, love it or LEAVE it.

Or try and change it.....

Uhh...personally, my own neighborhood, they're fighting and chest-beating and arguing at all hours of the day. They'll no joke yell at each other full on at 2am. They also have all sorts of people stopping by for 10 minutes and blocking my friggin driveway, also at all hours of the day. They're bad people, and I really don't care if bad things happened to them. I wouldn't help them. If I hear a full on fight/shootout or a woman screaming (from that side of the fence anyway), I hope by morning the police would have thinned those pack of dogs over there and throw someone in jail, though I don't have much faith in that....police go there repeatedly and just slap their hand and tell them to stop. Fighting. Arguing. Music playing. Selling drugs. Yeah they can burn.

My side of the fence though, I may help. If I can hear a guarantee rape or a murder going on (danger to life or limb), I'll help and I'll probably bring a firearm. If it's just regular domestics, not my business enough to intervene.

Geezz brah where you live? Mayor Wrights??

Sorry I lived there when I was younger my mom was raised there. And it sounds just like that place. It's the whole reason I live on Kauai now.