No JB Weld had a few got rejected.  And the guys had to weld it up. 

I brought in 4 lowers with the mags already welded in and they rejected them.  They said I had to bring them in stripped first and then register it and then welded in.  Of course I complained.   Got me nowhere.

Already welded in got rejected?  WTF?

No JB Weld had a few got rejected.  And the guys had to weld it up. 

I brought in 4 lowers with the mags already welded in and they rejected them.  They said I had to bring them in stripped first and then register it and then welded in.  Of course I complained.   Got me nowhere.

Meanwhile, Mr. Criminal Crumb doesn't bother with all that....
so these laws are supposed to stop criminals...what about handcuffs?
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33045702/police-video-shows-nevada-murder-suspect-break-cuffs-escape

How about passing a law that makes it a felony to break out of handcuffs....

Did you guys ask this guy?
http://khon2.com/2016/09/08/state-official-arrested-for-dui/

Both me and the officer behind the counter tried to reach out to the local atf office. When I got ahold of the atf agent he said he had no clue what the law was on 80% lowers and he said to email them and wait for there correspondence.

I don't blame hpd for this they have a shitty extra responsible that's been piled on them.... registration of firearms should not occur and it should not be hpd reasonably. Police are here to maintain rule of law not Cipher through poorly written laws. All this does is take away from there ability to properly police public areas and respond to calls from private areas. This is obscene on how much extra crap is thrown at them. I've never had an experience where I felt like HPD was abusing their Authority. Not saying that that doesn't happen but it would be a very rare Rogue occurrence.

They do get put in a difficult position. Laws are rarely ever written that completely eliminate gray areas. Police are then left to make decisions on application of these laws. This exists everwhere including traffic laws, domestic violence, firearms, etc. At a certain point some officer has to make a decision when presented with a situation that doesn't fit neatly into the legal wording.

My personal belief is that if it is unclear then they should tread lightly. Better to risk not arresting when you should than arresting when you shouldn't.

They do get put in a difficult position. Laws are rarely ever written that completely eliminate gray areas. Police are then left to make decisions on application of these laws. This exists everwhere including traffic laws, domestic violence, firearms, etc. At a certain point some officer has to make a decision when presented with a situation that doesn't fit neatly into the legal wording.

My personal belief is that if it is unclear then they should tread lightly. Better to risk not arresting when you should than arresting when you shouldn't.

Who said anything about arrests?  Arrest for what charge?

This thread is about AR pistol registration ... plain and simple.  Nobody is talking about being arrested here except you.   

 

They do get put in a difficult position. Laws are rarely ever written that completely eliminate gray areas. Police are then left to make decisions on application of these laws. This exists everwhere including traffic laws, domestic violence, firearms, etc. At a certain point some officer has to make a decision when presented with a situation that doesn't fit neatly into the legal wording.

My personal belief is that if it is unclear then they should tread lightly. Better to risk not arresting when you should than arresting when you shouldn't.

I don't believe it is an officer's job to make decisions on the application of laws.  It is their duty to get clarification if the law is sufficiently unclear as to make a reasonable decision when there is a question. 

Seems to me both parties (HPD AND AG) are blocking to further an agenda.  Which is very unethical.

http://www.honolulupd.org/department/index.php
Look under the mission tab...

Who said anything about arrests?  Arrest for what charge?

This thread is about AR pistol registration ... plain and simple.  Nobody is talking about being arrested here except you.   

 

Talking about a general philosophy of enforcing law. I'm not talking about anyone actually being arrested.

As it specifically relates to this topic, the application of this philosophy would mean that if the police are unsure of how to apply a firearm statute to the legality of a particular firearm then they should apply a conservative. Therefore in the question of what constitutes welding a magazine they should accept any form of permanently attaching a magazine rather than over interpreting it To mean a very narrow definition.

Talking about a general philosophy of enforcing law. I'm not talking about anyone actually being arrested.

As it specifically relates to this topic, the application of this philosophy would mean that if the police are unsure of how to apply a firearm statute to the legality of a particular firearm then they should apply a conservative. Therefore in the question of what constitutes welding a magazine they should accept any form of permanently attaching a magazine rather than over interpreting it To mean a very narrow definition.

What they should need to do is get a legal definition from the state attorney so that they can give a fair and consistent implementation of the law.

Officers do not interpret law, they enforce the law.  It is not up to them to make legal precedence.

I don't believe it is an officer's job to make decisions on the application of laws.  It is their duty to get clarification if the law is sufficiently unclear as to make a reasonable decision when there is a question. 

Seems to me both parties (HPD AND AG) are blocking to further an agenda.  Which is very unethical.

http://www.honolulupd.org/department/index.php
Look under the mission tab...

Agreed but you cannot get an answer on every possible law, at least not out in the field. Sooner or later a cop has to make a judgement call. Something like a firearm is an exception I suppose because they do have time to ask the AG for clarification.

But I was touching an overall philosophy I think cops should have. If the law doesn't outlaw a firearm clearly then cops shouldn't stretch it to cover something in a grey area.

What they should need to do is get a legal definition from the state attorney so that they can give a fair and consistent implementation of the law.

Officers do not interpret law, they enforce the law.  It is not up to them to make legal precedence.

We all know that in most cases where they believe they are correct, you won't get that interpretation until you file a lawsuit (or are arraigned!) and a judge makes the final call.  Then you have case law to use for interpretation at least as far as the specific facts fit new cases.

the auto body trade uses structural adhesives for repairs on plastic and fiberglass. This isn't like your jb weld, it's adhesives designed for structural plastic repair. If applied correctly it would not be removable without destroying the lower or magazine. Would bonding a polymer magazine with a polymer lower with this structural adhesive be acceptable in the eyes of HPD?

the auto body trade uses structural adhesives for repairs on plastic and fiberglass. This isn't like your jb weld, it's adhesives designed for structural plastic repair. If applied correctly it would not be removable without destroying the lower or magazine. Would bonding a polymer magazine with a polymer lower with this structural adhesive be acceptable in the eyes of HPD?

You would think/hope so but only way is to ask.

If i have a registered lower already, just need to weld the mag and take it back right?  Does HPD accept aluminum welding done with a brazing rod?

If i have a registered lower already, just need to weld the mag and take it back right?  Does HPD accept aluminum welding done with a brazing rod?

If you have a registered lower ( Registered as a pistol) you dont have to take it in at all. You only need to register a firearm one time.

They will not let you register a lower as a pistol without the magazine permanently attached.  If it is already registered I don't believe they will  re-register as a pistol.

Could be wrong. I don't remember. Got to look up those previous threads..

They will not let you register a lower as a pistol without the magazine permanently attached.  If it is already registered I don't believe they will  re-register as a pistol.

They will let you register the lower as a pistol if you tell them it is for a pump action pistol. Just don't let them catch you with it attached to a semi-automatic short upper unless you have welded it. Since you only have to register it once, then if you register it as a pump action pistol lower and then turn it into a semi-pistol with a welded magazine then you aren't going to get the flack at the window about whether your magazine is welded properly.

They will not let you register a lower as a pistol without the magazine permanently attached.  If it is already registered I don't believe they will  re-register as a pistol.

A rifle can not be re-registered as a pistol (this would make it an SBR) an AR pistol must be built on a pistol lower either from a manufacturer OR from an 80% lower.

HPD does not get to decide if you can or cant register a firearm, their job is to verify serial numbers and check to see if it is legally compliant at the time. a striped lower has no action or barrel so would be impossible for hem to class an an assault pistol. They have no choice but to register it. A lot of times they tell people shit because they dont know different and people in Hawaii are usually happy to go along with it.

They will not let you register a lower as a pistol without the magazine permanently attached.  If it is already registered I don't believe they will  re-register as a pistol.

I read above that you have the register before you do the modifications.  Its currently registered as a regular lower.

A rifle can not be re-registered as a pistol (this would make it an SBR) an AR pistol must be built on a pistol lower either from a manufacturer OR from an 80% lower.

HPD does not get to decide if you can or cant register a firearm, their job is to verify serial numbers and check to see if it is legally compliant at the time. a striped lower has no action or barrel so would be impossible for hem to class an an assault pistol. They have no choice but to register it. A lot of times they tell people shit because they dont know different and people in Hawaii are usually happy to go along with it.

Its was registered whatever the default option is for a stripped lower. 

Receiver and frames are not Rifle, Shotguns , nor handguns. They should be transferred and registered as Firearms.
Here is the letter anyone can take to HPD !!! They are in the wrong.

Straight from the files at ATF below: (2 pages)




https://www.atf.gov/file/60686/download



https://www.atf.gov/file/60686/download