Kunia Shooting (Read 28768 times)

Wave Twister

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2016, 11:15:50 AM »
I'm pretty sure that's near my house.
I walk my dog around there.

Right down the road from where I grew up as a kid on Kahakea St. in Village Park.

What a nut case, looks like he had some kind of mental illness or some other issues.

Jl808

Kunia Shooting
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2016, 11:18:10 AM »
This is a good example of HPD in action... more like HPD inaction.

The take away is that when you need police, they will only be there after the fact.  You are your own first line of defense and on your own when trouble first strikes.

Don't be a hapless victim. Hold them off with 1911 while someone dials 911.

Long live the 2nd Amendment!
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Rocky

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2016, 11:20:48 AM »
I'm pretty sure that's near my house.
I walk my dog around there.
Hope it's a "BIG DOG"    :wave:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

oldfart

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2016, 12:41:42 PM »
Hope it's a "BIG DOG"    :wave:
...
You talking about my pet or that nekked guy? :rofl:
...
I wonder what the police investigation will uncover? :rofl:
....
Hmmm...there's more here than meets the eye. :shake:
...
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 12:48:35 PM by oldfart »
What, Me Worry?

Heavies

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »
Ok folks....  the worry is over now...  they will get a TRO against the suspect.  All is safe now, nothing to see here...

http://www.kitv.com/story/33410475/kunia-family-dealing-with-aftermath-of-shooting

oldfart

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2016, 02:47:43 PM »
Ok folks....  the worry is over now...  they will get a TRO against the suspect.  All is safe now, nothing to see here...

http://www.kitv.com/story/33410475/kunia-family-dealing-with-aftermath-of-shooting
...
No gun was found?
I'm gonna take my dog and search the gulch by those townhouses.
Maybe  score me a free ar15. :thumbsup:
What, Me Worry?

zhuzhits

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2016, 05:03:18 PM »
SMFH Hpd ran a weapons check on vidinhas name/address, it came back negative. Shows how great firearms registration works in hawaii. Eff de politicians mon!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 05:10:29 PM by zhuzhits »

zippz

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2016, 07:29:12 PM »
I didn't see any local prior criminal history in the court search, except for old TRO's. 

Possible he just purchased it recently and didn't register it.

zippz

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2016, 07:36:08 PM »
Here it is, he broke a lock and took his family member's rifle.

Aglipay also says the rifle used Saturday belongs to one of Vidinha's relatives, and that he took it without permission.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33412388/honolulu-police-respond-to-criticism-of-officers-actions-before-kunia-shooting

Shaba

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2016, 01:38:51 AM »
Same case here in Pearl city, Mental running around with syringe earrings.  Got into a confrontation with him for saying offensive comments to my friend (girl). Next morning I found syringes in my driveway. I don't mind but just for the fact that he lives a of block from an elementary school. Kids walk pass every day. Called cops, and they said they had numerous complaints about him, and cant do anything... Guess we gotta wait n see.....

ren

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2016, 06:08:24 AM »
I'll expect more laws targeting US - the law abiding citizens for just exercising our 2A rights. Because some crazy criminal stole a firearm from us. They will paint the picture that if we didn't have it around in the first place then this wouldn't have happened.  :shake: :crazy: The crazy guy will likely get a knife or someother object.
Deeds Not Words

Pnut Bandit

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2016, 07:15:58 AM »
Same case here in Pearl city, Mental running around with syringe earrings.  Got into a confrontation with him for saying offensive comments to my friend (girl). Next morning I found syringes in my driveway. I don't mind but just for the fact that he lives a of block from an elementary school. Kids walk pass every day. Called cops, and they said they had numerous complaints about him, and cant do anything... Guess we gotta wait n see.....

OMG your talking about that Bruce Leroy Looking Guy that's always running?   I almost ran that fool over while he jogged across the street against a don't cross light.  Didn't know that were syringes on his ears I thought they were some kind of cordless headphones.

Yeah that guy needs to be interned somewhere else.

macsak

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2016, 07:59:50 AM »
Any thoughts on returning fire to someone outside the home? 
I'm not sure what the place looks like,  but it wouldn't seem like a good idea.

note that we are absolutely liable for every projectile that leaves the barrel of our firearms
and that any projectile that leaves our property is reckless endangering

asinapple8805

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2016, 08:33:52 AM »
note that we are absolutely liable for every projectile that leaves the barrel of our firearms
and that any projectile that leaves our property is reckless endangering

i don't mean to argue with you Macsak, but i think you meant to say that intentionally discharging a firearm in a populated area (other than a target range) is reckless endangering, regardless of the circumstances.

macsak

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2016, 08:38:47 AM »
i don't mean to argue with you Macsak, but i think you meant to say that intentionally discharging a firearm in a populated area (other than a target range) is reckless endangering, regardless of the circumstances.

http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/

RECKLESS ENDANGERING

Discharging a firearm toward a populated area or on or toward a street or road is reckless endangering. This can apply to private ranges, plinking, negligent discharges, and self-defense use.

i actually mis-stated the first one:

The owner of a firearm is “absolutely” liable for personal injury or property damage caused by the discharge of he firearm unless the firearm was stolen and reasonably reported stolen, or unless the discharge of the firearm was legally justified.

same source

omnigun

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2016, 09:27:28 AM »
http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/

RECKLESS ENDANGERING

Discharging a firearm toward a populated area or on or toward a street or road is reckless endangering. This can apply to private ranges, plinking, negligent discharges, and self-defense use.

i actually mis-stated the first one:

The owner of a firearm is “absolutely” liable for personal injury or property damage caused by the discharge of he firearm unless the firearm was stolen and reasonably reported stolen, or unless the discharge of the firearm was legally justified.

same source

Wow that law is stupid as fuck.   So if some dudes tries to kill me if I shoot him and save my life and my families life I will automatically get charged with reckless endangerment?  Lose my gun rights and become a criminal?  Unless of course I like on a 50 acre farm with no streets or populated areas?

aieahound

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2016, 10:00:55 AM »
That's why this is a crazy scenario.
Guy riddling your house with gunfire from the driveway or sidewalk and pretty much no way to return fire without endangering neighbors.

zippz

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2016, 10:04:56 AM »
Sounds like a common sense law to me.  You are responsible for every shot that leaves the barrel.  However it makes an exemption for a self-defense use (legally justified), though the exemption isn't unlimited like if you spray and pray.  So you are protected from being charged criminally.  Law enforcement have to follow these laws too.

On the civil side, if you have a negligent discharge at your home or shoot an errant round or riccochete at the range, and it hits me a half-mile away, I'm going to sue you.  If it's a self-defense situation and you miss the bad guy and hit me, I'm going to sue you...at least to pay for the hospital bill and incapacitation.  Also why Koko Head range needs improvements to fix the safety risks.

Training and safety are very important and most people don't realize they are undertrained for situations like this.  You can't just spray bullets in a self-defense situation and put your life ahead of other innocent people.  And just because you can return fire doesn't necessarily mean you should.

Basically for self-defense situations you have nothing to gain, but everything to lose.

asinapple8805

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2016, 10:43:02 AM »
http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/hawaii-gun-laws/

RECKLESS ENDANGERING

Discharging a firearm toward a populated area or on or toward a street or road is reckless endangering. This can apply to private ranges, plinking, negligent discharges, and self-defense use.

i actually mis-stated the first one:

The owner of a firearm is “absolutely” liable for personal injury or property damage caused by the discharge of he firearm unless the firearm was stolen and reasonably reported stolen, or unless the discharge of the firearm was legally justified.

same source

macsak, if you want a better source, refer to HRS §707-714(1)(b)     http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0707/HRS_0707-0714.htm

§707-714  Reckless endangering in the second degree. 
(1)  A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the second degree if the person:
     (a) ...
     (b)  Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.

Wow that law is stupid as fuck.   So if some dudes tries to kill me if I shoot him and save my life and my families life I will automatically get charged with reckless endangerment?  Lose my gun rights and become a criminal?  Unless of course I like on a 50 acre farm with no streets or populated areas?

you won't automatically get charged with Reckless Endangering 2nd, but you could be charged with it.  if you get a chance, read state v. martins, 106 haw. 62, 101 p.3d 671 (ICA 2004).  there is some discussion in there as to the sufficiency of the evidence for a jury to decide whether an area is "populated" for the purpose of Reckless 2nd.  the case relies on an older version of the statute, but the older version is almost identical to the current version quoted above.

That's why this is a crazy scenario.
Guy riddling your house with gunfire from the driveway or sidewalk and pretty much no way to return fire without endangering neighbors.

reckless endangering 2nd has nothing to do with whether you are actually endangering neighbors.  Although you are likely endangering them if you are firing in the direction of houses or streets (707-714(1)(a)), the other part of the "or" makes the shooter criminally liable (707-714(1)(b)).

Sounds like a common sense law to me.  You are responsible for every shot that leaves the barrel.  However it makes an exemption for a self-defense use (legally justified), though the exemption isn't unlimited like if you spray and pray.  So you are protected from being charged criminally.  Law enforcement have to follow these laws too.

On the civil side, if you have a negligent discharge at your home or shoot an errant round or riccochete at the range, and it hits me a half-mile away, I'm going to sue you.  If it's a self-defense situation and you miss the bad guy and hit me, I'm going to sue you...at least to pay for the hospital bill and incapacitation.  Also why Koko Head range needs improvements to fix the safety risks.

Training and safety are very important and most people don't realize they are undertrained for situations like this.  You can't just spray bullets in a self-defense situation and put your life ahead of other innocent people.  And just because you can return fire doesn't necessarily mean you should.

Basically for self-defense situations you have nothing to gain, but everything to lose.

i don't think that the legal affirmative defense of self defense is available for this.  it may be available as a defense to a homicide charge, but not for reckless endangering 2nd.  defense counsel may try to argue that the discharge of the firearm may not have been "intentional," but there's almost no way that a defense counsel would win that battle. 

"intentionally" is a legal term of art and it refers to the purposefulness of the action.  in this case, i think "intentionally" refers to the discharge of the firearm.  in other words, imagine a prosecutor asking, "[Defendant], when you pulled the trigger of the firearm, did you know that the firearm would discharge a round?  Did you intend to discharge a round by pulling the trigger?"

"intentionally" has nothing to do with whether you were hoping that you would hit your intended target.

macsak

Re: Kunia Shooting
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2016, 10:54:55 AM »
macsak, if you want a better source, refer to HRS §707-714(1)(b)     http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0707/HRS_0707-0714.htm

§707-714  Reckless endangering in the second degree. 
(1)  A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the second degree if the person:
     (a) ...
     (b)  Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.


mahalo, asin
it's easier for me to look up the layman's version
:)