I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands,
 one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

In my opinion, it would be more accurate to have this:

"I pledge allegiance to the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and to the Republic to which it has founded, one nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all."


Kuleana

The proper way to salute the flag since the 18th century.  It was changed to "over the heart" in the early 1950.   

1954 and current version.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In my opinion, it would be more accurate to have this:

"I pledge allegiance to the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and to the Republic to which it has founded, one nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all."

Kuleana

Amen. I would prefer to pledge allegiance to an ideal than to a symbol. Ideals remain but symbols can be manipulated.

Amen. I would prefer to pledge allegiance to an ideal than to a symbol. Ideals remain but symbols can be manipulated.

I see the flag that symbolized everything the USA stands for.
Not sure what uniform you wear EEF, but I wore one on my right shoulder.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Flag and our country stands for a lot more than can be described.
It stands for a country of liberty and responsibility towards fellow citizens.
Its about a country that stands for its people. A country by its people. Its a country of many stories of struggle, success and dreams that become reality.
Somewhere between when the pledge of allegiance was written and today those values and meanings have been lost in conjecture and disillusionment.

case in point:

I see the flag that symbolized everything the USA stands for.
Not sure what uniform you wear EEF, but I wore one on my right shoulder.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Flag and our country stands for a lot more than can be described.
It stands for a country of liberty and responsibility towards fellow citizens.
Its about a country that stands for its people. A country by its people. Its a country of many stories of struggle, success and dreams that become reality.
Somewhere between when the pledge of allegiance was written and today those values and meanings have been lost in conjecture and disillusionment.

case in point:

When I made my statement I imagined a worse case scenario. If our country threw out the bill of rights and became full on communist, they might still fly the same flag. I understand what you are saying in that our flag stands for our country which is in part defined by our constitution. I just am weary of pledging allegiance to a symbol that could change meanings. I follow the ideal of our country, not just a symbol. But then again, I am not much for symbolism to start with.

When I made my statement I imagined a worse case scenario. If our country threw out the bill of rights and became full on communist, they might still fly the same flag. I understand what you are saying in that our flag stands for our country which is in part defined by our constitution. I just am weary of pledging allegiance to a symbol that could change meanings. I follow the ideal of our country, not just a symbol. But then again, I am not much for symbolism to start with.

EEF does have a good point there.

They can still fly the same flag even if the things it stands for has changed. So, we ought to be committed to the underlying premise, which for America is the Constitution, the supreme law.

In Germany where runaway Nationalism left the country a smoking ruin they are a lot more careful with symbology these days. There is great danger in the kind of groupthink that exclude valid points of view as being unpatriotic or in our case anti-American. It's just as important to put the brakes on bad ideas as it is to implement good ones.

The Flag is a representation of the Republic, Our republic exists because of the Constitution (and therefore the bill of rights).

Therefore the flag is the Constitution, A pledge to the flag is a Pledge to the constitution.

The constitution exists because of the people, The people empower the Constitution.

Therefore a Pledge to the constitution is a Pledge to the people.

So What i really said was

I pledge allegiance to my Constitution and the People for which it stands,
 one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

The Flag is a representation of the Republic, Our republic exists because of the Constitution (and therefore the bill of rights).

Therefore the flag is the Constitution, A pledge to the flag is a Pledge to the constitution.

The constitution exists because of the people, The people empower the Constitution.

Therefore a Pledge to the constitution is a Pledge to the people.

So What i really said was

I pledge allegiance to my Constitution and the People for which it stands,
 one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

I like your revision, but must insist that it should read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Constitution, and the people for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all its legal citizenry."

If I am not mistaken, the US Constitution technically legally applies to US citizens and maybe its permanent resident aliens only.


Kuleana

If I am not mistaken, the US Constitution technically legally applies to US citizens and maybe its permanent resident aliens only.


Kuleana

I believe you are mistaken.

I believe you are mistaken.

I stand corrected.

With the exception of the right to run for President, vote, and to possess firearms, it appears that the US Supreme Court has upheld that any person entering illegally to the US are still granted the basic human rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the US Constitution.


Kuleana

If the Constitution didn't apply equally to everybody it wouldn't be such an incredible document. When you are okay with torture, extraordinary rendition, targeted assassination and indefinite detention what you are really saying is:

I like your revision,

This is not my Revision, This is what the Pledge of Allegiance meas

I stand corrected.

With the exception of the right to run for President, vote, and to possess firearms, it appears that the US Supreme Court has upheld that any person entering illegally to the US are still granted the basic human rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the US Constitution.


Kuleana

Well not just illegally but everyone whether citizen, green card holder, US national, someone on a student visa etc. For example, when a cop interacts with someone, the right against unlawful search doesn't exist only if someone is a certain status, especially considering the cop doesn't know the individuals status anyway. (No one is required to carry around proof of citizenship)
The supreme court even held that detainees in Guantanamo had certain rights as consistent with our justice system.

As some have explained, the rights in the constitution don't exist simply because of the constitution, rather they are rights we all have and the constitution recognizes them and solidifies them. That is why they apply to everyone, they are universal rights.

Well not just illegally but everyone whether citizen, green card holder, US national, someone on a student visa etc. For example, when a cop interacts with someone, the right against unlawful search doesn't exist only if someone is a certain status, especially considering the cop doesn't know the individuals status anyway. (No one is required to carry around proof of citizenship)
The supreme court even held that detainees in Guantanamo had certain rights as consistent with our justice system.

As some have explained, the rights in the constitution don't exist simply because of the constitution, rather they are rights we all have and the constitution recognizes them and solidifies them. That is why they apply to everyone, they are universal rights.

Are you talking about the detainees that obama promised would no longer be at gitmo?
8 years ago?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you talking about the detainees that obama promised would no longer be at gitmo?
8 years ago?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't recall the specifics of the case though I believe it had something to do with the right to appeal ones detention, habeas corpus. I can look it up if you are interested.