Representative Letter (Read 3606 times)

changemyoil66

Representative Letter
« on: November 14, 2016, 09:39:24 AM »
Hi Guys,

I sent an email to my local representative Scott Nishimoto about my concerns about CCW and use of deadly force.  He actually wrote back asking "Please contact me with bill language to amend the statutes".  What shall I respond with?  I am not an attorney so I don't know if he wants specific language or an idea of what language to change.

I was thinking:
1) Change may issue to shall issue for CCW permit
2) Change language on deadly force to "Immediate threat to death, serious injury, or felony". (Like in Nevada, robbery is a felony)
     a) Currently language reads "Immediate threat to death, serious injury, rape, sodomy, or kidnap."

zippz

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 10:52:52 AM »
Keep the deadly force in place.  Felony is too general and can mean a lot of different things.  It's a felony if you put your Iphone on the table and someone takes it.  Lots of scenarios in a Robbery too where you shouldn't shoot.

So revise the law to:

Licenses to carry.  (a) In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property, the chief of police of the appropriate county mayshall grant a license to an applicant who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more or to a duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation of the age of twenty-one years or more to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor concealed on the person within the State county where the license is grantedWhere the urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated, The respective chief of police may shall grant to an applicant of good moral character who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more, is engaged in the protection of life and property, and is not prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm, a license to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor unconcealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  The chief of police of the appropriate county, or the chief's designated representative, shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, to include a check of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases where the applicant is not a citizen of the United States, before any determination to grant a license is made.  Unless renewed, the license shall expire one five years from the date of issue.

     (b)  The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:

     (1)  Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner; (insert specific training requirements or testing procedures here)

     (2)  Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;

     (3)  Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and

     (4)  Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.

     (c)  No person shall carry concealed or unconcealed on the person a pistol or revolver without being licensed to do so under this section or in compliance with sections 134-5(c) or 134-25.

     (d)  A fee of $10 (insert realistic fee for processing, usually around $50-$100) shall be charged for each license and shall be deposited in the treasury of the county in which the license is granted. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §8; am L 1997, c 254, §§2, 4; am L 2000, c 96, §1; am L 2002, c 79, §1; am L 2006, c 27, §3 and c 66, §3; am L 2007, c 9, §8]
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 12:28:38 PM by zippz »

zippz

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 10:58:38 AM »
The bill isn't enough though.  You have to drum up the support from the firearms and general community for it or it will fail.  You need hundreds or thousands of people to apply for CCW permits before the legislative session and they have to submit testimony.  Currently they only number in the dozens.

Hawaii's CCW laws are also very sparse and don't cover a lot of things.  Here is Nevada's CCW related laws under "concealed firearms"  http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-202.html.  The more things are detailed in the laws, the less things for the police and AG to interpret and make stuff up.

NRS 202.3653         Definitions.
NRS 202.3657         Application for permit; eligibility; denial or revocation of permit.
NRS 202.366           Investigation of applicant for permit; issuance or denial of permit; expiration of permit.
NRS 202.3662         Confidentiality of information about applicant for permit and permittee.
NRS 202.3663         Judicial review of denial of application for permit.
NRS 202.3665         Duties of sheriff upon receiving notification that applicant or permittee has been charged with or convicted of crime involving use or threatened use of force or violence.
NRS 202.3667         Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.
NRS 202.367           Duplicate permit; notification to sheriff of recovered permit; penalty.
NRS 202.3673         Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
NRS 202.3677         Application for renewal of permit; fees; demonstrated continued competence required.
NRS 202.3678         Application for certification as qualified retired law enforcement officer; law enforcement agency required to offer certain officers opportunity to obtain qualifications necessary for certification; fees.
NRS 202.368           Fees to be deposited with county treasurer.
NRS 202.3683         Immunity of state and local governments from civil liability.
NRS 202.3687         Temporary permits.
NRS 202.3688         Circumstances in which holder of permit issued by another state may carry concealed firearm in this State.
NRS 202.3689         Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
NRS 202.369           Regulations.


Another option is a reciprocity bill where other state's CCW permits are valid here.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 11:06:54 AM by zippz »

punaperson

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 07:40:01 PM »
Licenses to carry.  (a) In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property, the chief of police of the appropriate county mayshall grant a license to an applicant who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more or to a duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation of the age of twenty-one years or more to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor concealed on the person within the State county where the license is grantedWhere the urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated, The respective chief of police may shall grant to an applicant of good moral character who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more, is engaged in the protection of life and property, and is not prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm, a license to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor unconcealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  The chief of police of the appropriate county, or the chief's designated representative, shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, to include a check of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases where the applicant is not a citizen of the United States, before any determination to grant a license is made.  Unless renewed, the license shall expire one five years from the date of issue.
1. Eliminate the vague, ambiguous, arbitrary and capricious totally subjective qualification of "good moral character".
2. Why make CCW statewide but keep OC only in the county of issuance?

Here is my proposed bill, which I submitted each of the last two years to several legislators including Slom and Gabbard (none of whom introduced it!):

A BILL FOR AN ACT

RELATING TO FIREARMS.
 
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII:

§134-9  Licenses to carry.  (a)  In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property, the chief of police of the appropriate county may grant a license to an applicant who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more or to a duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation of the age of twenty-one years or more to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor concealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  Where the urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated, the respective chief of police may grant to an applicant of good moral character who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more, is engaged in the protection of life and property, and is not prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm, a license to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor unconcealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  The chief of police of the appropriate county, or the chief's designated representative, shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, to include a check of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases where the applicant is not a citizen of the United States, before any determination to grant a license is made.  Unless renewed, the license shall expire one year from the date of issue.
     (b)  The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
     (1)  Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
     (2)  Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;
     (3)  Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and
     (4)  Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.
     (c)  No person shall carry concealed or unconcealed on the person a pistol or revolver without being licensed to do so under this section or in compliance with sections 134-5(c) or 134-25.
     (d)  A fee of $10 shall be charged for each license and shall be deposited in the treasury of the county in which the license is granted. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §8; am L 1997, c 254, §§2, 4; am L 2000, c 96, §1; am L 2002, c 79, §1; am L 2006, c 27, §3 and c 66, §3; am L 2007, c 9, §8]

MauiLeatherwork

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2016, 10:08:42 PM »
Thanks, PunaPerson.

If I hear you right, it's like saying:

In other words, let us carry.

We jumped through many checks and laws just to "aquire"!

punaperson

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 07:20:27 AM »
Thanks, PunaPerson.

If I hear you right, it's like saying:

In other words, let us carry.

We jumped through many checks and laws just to "aquire"!
It's like this: Eleven (11) states already have so-called "constitutional carry", which I prefer to call "permitless carry", which allows citizens (in Idaho and Wyoming residents only) to carry concealed handguns without applying to the government for permission to exercise the Constitutionally-guaranteed "right to keep and bear arms", which according to the U.S. and Hawaii state constitutions "shall not be infringed". Four (4) more states have slightly limited forms of permitless carry ("outside cities" or "unloaded weapon with loaded magazine"). Legislatures in a number of other states have passed such legislation, only to have it vetoed by the governor. One of those states now has a new governor of a different party (Republican) who will likely sign the bill when it passes again next year. "Both McDonald v. Chicago and Moore v. Madigan clarified that the core of the right is to bear arms for self-defense. And more crimes (where self-defense would be useful) are committed outside the home than inside the home.

All those states with permitless carry, and all those states with "shall issue" concealed and/or open carry (many states have permitless open carry) have many years of record-keeping regarding the degree of lawful behavior by this firearm bearing segment of the population. Florida began issuing CCW permits in 1987, so they have lots of data, as now 2 million Florida residents have permits. Generally speaking, cops are more law-abiding than the non-law enforcement segment of the population, committing crimes at approximately one-third (1/3) the rate of the general populous. The permit-holding population commits crimes at one-third (1/3) to one-sixth (1/6)(depending on exactly which "crimes" are included in the statistical measurement) of the cops. In other words, you're at least three times (possibly six times) more likely to be the victim of a crime committed by a cop than by a concealed carry permit holder.

Thus my suggested bill above (delete all government requirements to carry concealed or open). There is absolutely no evidence that will withstand critical scrutiny that would provide the slightest justification for the assertion that denying people the right to bear arms in public is a "public safety" issue. None. Yes, there is "evidence" manufactured by the "public health" sector physicians who have entire lifelong careers based upon earning grants from citizen disarmament organizations, but those studies don't meet the standard of holding up under critical scrutiny.

In other words, the claim of the Hawaii law enforcement community, and vast majority of legislators, that carrying in public is a "public safety issue", is a ruse, a subterfuge, a diversion, or to put it more directly and less politically correctly, a bald-faced lie. Why would they lie about such a thing? I leave that up to readers to decide that for themselves.

I have asked everyone, from the governor and the attorney general on down to legislators and police chiefs to provide me with evidence and/or a justification or rationale as to why Hawaii residents would be any less responsible than all the other licensed/permitted concealed and open carriers (over 14 million, and the likely millions more in states where no license is required), in all the other states where there is no history of any "public safety" hazard, and thus are denied that right (zero (0) licenses in the entire state) to bear arms for self-defense. Are you surprised that not one single one of them has ever even answered my queries, much less actually provided an answer as to why Hawaii residents are, in their view, incompetent and irresponsible bumbling idiots? But that's what they think of us. That's what they think of you. Nice.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 07:31:06 AM by punaperson »

garfy2008

Re: Representative Letter
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 05:31:20 AM »

I have asked everyone, from the governor and the attorney general on down to legislators and police chiefs to provide me with evidence and/or a justification or rationale as to why Hawaii residents would be any less responsible than all the other licensed/permitted concealed and open carriers......... to bear arms for self-defense. Are you surprised that not one single one of them has ever even answered my queries, much less actually provided an answer as to why Hawaii residents are, in their view, incompetent and irresponsible bumbling idiots? But that's what they think of us. That's what they think of you. Nice.

I think that they KNOW the majority of Hawaii's residents are indeed "bumbling idiots".  After all, they keep re-electing liberal Democrats to the Legislature & governorship.  (Isn't it funny that "liberal" in this case means restrictive for anything "common sense" but free for all in other areas, ie. boys can use girls' bathrooms, etc., etc.)