I read in today's paper about the serious concerns raised by the federal transit administration in regards to how the city will fund a cost over run. Extending the half percent tax beyond 2022 seems unlikely. We all know how often government cost over runs on large projects occur.

I seriously doubt that I will be able to use the rail system to transport me and my guns to a range any way. lol

Well I started the post, what say you?

Project hasn't even started and they had to realign the Rail three times.  Once by the Fed Building and twice near the airport.  The first airport realignment was to screw the Moanalua people who voted for the initial design which routed through their neck of the woods and the second to make the appropriate clear space for the runway near Sand Island.  Price started at an assured price of $3B from Mufi and now everyone accepts it will be at least $5B.................yet people still support it..................so stupid...........so corrupt...........GZ is done............

Project hasn't even started and they had to realign the Rail three times.  Once by the Fed Building and twice near the airport.  The first airport realignment was to screw the Moanalua people who voted for the initial design which routed through their neck of the woods and the second to make the appropriate clear space for the runway near Sand Island.  Price started at an assured price of $3B from Mufi and now everyone accepts it will be at least $5B.................yet people still support it..................so stupid...........so corrupt...........GZ is done............

I am sure the TAXI and tourism folks are screaming thier heads off over a route to the airport.

You mean tourist/travelers no longer have to pay $40+  to go from the airport to Waikiki. I can recall when that trip was less than 1/2 that and it was still stupid.

I doubt the rail system will get the use people think it will.  What it will become is haunt for vagrants and criminals. 

A good friend of mine is Panos and after listening to him grumble about this rail thing for years he has got me brainwashed.  And all the city corruption & abuse I have seen over the years it is going to be a nightmare project no matter what.  I was for it before but not no more.  I lived in Bangkok when they built the Monorail and Subway System.  They did it right and it works.  Of course Bangkok is a crowded city and it has to work.  Same goes for Japan.  But Honolulu? forget it. Fix the damn traffic patterns.

A good friend of mine is Panos and after listening to him grumble about this rail thing for years he has got me brainwashed.  And all the city corruption & abuse I have seen over the years it is going to be a nightmare project no matter what.  I was for it before but not no more.  I lived in Bangkok when they built the Monorail and Subway System.  They did it right and it works.  Of course Bangkok is a crowded city and it has to work.  Same goes for Japan.  But Honolulu? forget it. Fix the damn traffic patterns.

Take a look at Washington DC and that will tell you how things don't work (pun intended). The rail system there works, but is very costly, as is parking. Parking is also not adequate at the stations.

People "slug" it (complete strangers ride share the HOV) so they can beat traffic and the cost of the VRE/METRO.

The rail here will be a waste of money.  Use some of that money and fill  the godamn pot holes on the freeways.

I had thought that we would have a doable system, but I guess not. The more I read and hear about this project, the more disgusted I become with it. I got to ride the steel on steel system in Chicago. People of Hawaii generally have no idea how loud steel on steel is. The systems like the one in Chicago work primarily because it has been made too expensive for the average Joe to operate a car on a daily basis. This is also the same approach used in many parts of the world such as in Europe and Asia. By forcing people out of their cars the public will have little alternative other than public transportation. Can you imagine the outrage the locals will feel when the same thing happens to them?   

It is tragic that the same consulting firm that advised the Harris admin. that rail was too expensive for Honlulu, also for pushed rail under Hanneman. I understood that we currently do not have the tax payer base to support heavy rail. When a system this large is planned for a city/county on the mainland, millions of dollars are allocated for job training the local population for the good paying jobs that the system will create. I have heard nothing of this for the Hon. rail project.  I am sure that there will be janitorial jobs created by the rail. I foresee a lot more graffiti to clean up. I also saw in the paper that the top paying jobs will go to those that have some sort of connection to the rail builder or contractor. One could argue that no one in Hawaii has any such experience. The CEO of the Hon. rail will have a larger salary than the Hon. mayor.   
 

A good friend of mine is Panos and after listening to him grumble about this rail thing for years he has got me brainwashed.  And all the city corruption & abuse I have seen over the years it is going to be a nightmare project no matter what.  I was for it before but not no more.  I lived in Bangkok when they built the Monorail and Subway System.  They did it right and it works.  Of course Bangkok is a crowded city and it has to work.  Same goes for Japan.  But Honolulu? forget it. Fix the damn traffic patterns.

I took a traffic/transportation class from Panos when he was relatively new at UH. 

I remember him asking us a question along these lines;
Panos - You are given a project that is funded.  You realize the project provides no benefit.  What do you do?
Class - You turn the project back over as it's a waste of money.
Panos - Wrong.  The money is budgeted, you spend it.

You should ask him about that some time.

Down with rail. I was against it from the beginning, even though the economy was good. Not enough people will use it, it will do nothing to relieve traffic, it will be a huge money pit, and a corruption nightmare.

I couldn't believe that people actually voted for this project to move forward; it would not benefit 75% of the island!!  Something fishy going on...

Down with rail. I was against it from the beginning, even though the economy was good. Not enough people will use it, it will do nothing to relieve traffic, it will be a huge money pit, and a corruption nightmare.

I couldn't believe that people actually voted for this project to move forward; it would not benefit 75% of the island!!  Something fishy going on...

The something fishy is the politics behind it. Plain and simple. As usual Heavies, the force is with you...

I have also lived on the mainland where there are rail systems and they worked well.  I'm sure those systems had their share of criticism.  Will rail be as successful on Oahu? who knows....   So......let us not do anything to relieve traffic and sit on it for another 20 years until we are all complaining about our 4hr commutes. 
IMHO, something must be done now.  Actually, something like rail should have been started 10yrs ago.  Traffic is only going to get worse guys, there is no getting around it.  Something has got to give.  If not rail, then what else has a better shot at relieving traffic? What could be an alternate plan that is long term? expandable?  You see the condition of the roads now, can we support new ones?
Anything major will have its growing pains, and Hawaii culture doesn't exactly embrace change.
Japan is crowded, Bankok is crowded, so rail has to work there.......?  Do we wait until Honolulu/Oahu is that crowded, then start a multi-year project? Talk about traffic jams.
Corruption is gonna happen with or without rail.  Projects are going to go over budget.  It happens.  The feds are willing to give us money, we need to run with it.

Either way. If rail happens or not, it won't be the end of the world.  If it does, someone will ride it.  If someone rides it, that someone is off the road.  The more someone's the better and that's better than what will happen if rail doesn't...........nothing.

BTW, I never use H3 but someone does.

Now if we only had lottery income to support things like public education.........

I have also lived on the mainland where there are rail systems and they worked well.  I'm sure those systems had their share of criticism.  Will rail be as successful on Oahu? who knows....   So......let us not do anything to relieve traffic and sit on it for another 20 years until we are all complaining about our 4hr commutes. 
IMHO, something must be done now.  Actually, something like rail should have been started 10yrs ago.  Traffic is only going to get worse guys, there is no getting around it.  Something has got to give.  If not rail, then what else has a better shot at relieving traffic? What could be an alternate plan that is long term? expandable?  You see the condition of the roads now, can we support new ones?
Anything major will have its growing pains, and Hawaii culture doesn't exactly embrace change.
Japan is crowded, Bankok is crowded, so rail has to work there.......?  Do we wait until Honolulu/Oahu is that crowded, then start a multi-year project? Talk about traffic jams.
Corruption is gonna happen with or without rail.  Projects are going to go over budget.  It happens.  The feds are willing to give us money, we need to run with it.

Either way. If rail happens or not, it won't be the end of the world.  If it does, someone will ride it.  If someone rides it, that someone is off the road.  The more someone's the better and that's better than what will happen if rail doesn't...........nothing.

BTW, I never use H3 but someone does.

Now if we only had lottery income to support things like public education.........

First off let me cover my background.  GZ has a BSc in Civil Engineering.  I have design credits in transportation and traffic engineering.  I interned with a large construction company on the H3 project and have over 17 years of experience in construction.  With this I feel I have a much greater understanding of traffic/transportation than the general layman.  Now my take on your observations/comments;

Oahu already has a mass transit system in place.  This mass transit system is highly effective.  It is called The Bus.  This system could become more effective should it be moved to a full/hybrid rapid transit system.  By this I mean it would have dedicated travel ways.  The good thing about using the current system is it is much more flexible than Rail, it can be adjusted immediately. the skilled labor to maintain the system is already in place, the management system is already in place, the maintenance facilities are already in place, replacement of components is much quicker and can be achieved through purchasing US goods.  If you look at the Rail system, it has none of these advantages, rather the money goes outside the US and will require specialized training, maintenance facilities, long lead replacement parts/components/units.  The Rail needs to stay on its dedicated path and cannot deviate.  Breakdowns of a single component can lead to major delays or flat out shut down of the system.  To alleviate this potential you would need to add points at/between stations where you can remove cars from the tracks.

You have mentioned starting something like Rail 10 years ago.  Sen Inouye had federal funding lined up for a project such as this in the 90's.  Unlike the current system the Federal government would have paid the majority of the bill at that time.  Currently without a solid plan to obtain funding, even today's Federal funding may not be guaranteed.  This funding issue was raised years ago, but like everything associated with the Rail the City has turned a blind eye.  Gross negligence at best.

You ask what can be done to help relieve traffic.  For one an alternative plan has already been put forth that will modify the current Bus system to allow for exclusive pathways, it would construct off grade intersections most notably at Piikoi/Vineyard on ramp.  Such a split intersection will help greatly to alleviate back log/gridlock at the intersection allowing for greater traffic flow.  An elevated reversable toll roadway would still be possible with a terminating point at Aloha Stadium.  This point can help to alleviate the daily traffic that gets impacted due to the Pearl Harbor Shipyard workers.  Entry onto the toll roadway gives one more way to get the quantities of people out of the area.  It will also pay dividends when you look at major sporting or entertainment events held there.  For daily traffic it can serve as a way point for the commuters.  There is already sufficient parking, will allow for a centralized way point, will allow for a centralized policing of the parked vehicles.  The C&C has already stated that they want private partnerships for these station facilities, it's unlikely that you'll be able to do that at all the stations, however you already have that at stadium mall.  In addition the tour bus companies can be utilized or the Bus to help shuttle the patrons to their final destinations in downtown Honolulu or to UH.  If you consider the cost to do this current line, you must also figure what it would cost to continue a spur to UH.  Using the Bus or local tour buses with BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) lanes you can achieve that today at minimal cost, not billions more at the expense of displacing residents along the new spur.

The elevated roadway would be very similar in design and construction to the elevated railway.  The maintenance of the roadway will be easier than the railway and factoring in a toll will be more likely to help subsidize itself than Rail where the fee goes towards the car maintenance/repair, rail repair, facility repair, etc.

With regards to going over budget.  Yes there are always unforseen conditions however that is not the case with Rail so far.  When this was still being discussed the $5B price tag was already mentioned, however Mufi adamantly said it would only be $3B.  The initial routing through Salt Lake was done to get Council votes to allow the project to move forward.  Once that happened the route was changed to go to the airport where everyone knew it had to go in the first place.  That realignment cost money.   The realignment by the Federal Building downtown was something that was known, but not addressed.  Realignment cost money.  The encroachment into the runway approach was known by the City a full year before it was brought to the public's attention, that realignment cost money.  Off the top of my head I want to say at least $125+M.  The current exploratory shafts for the elevated roadway is ongoing and behind schedule.  You want to bet Kiewit has a ton of lawyers reviewing documents and preparing their change orders?  These are all items that can and should have been looked at.  This points to gross oversight by the City and if more then corruption.

So you see there are viable alternatives that look to help to address the traffic situation, but the City has locked its sights only on Rail.  Another way to help is to start strictly enforcing registration and insurance requirements.  Registration expired and you're on the street - impound the car and fine.  Insurance has expired - impound the car and fine.  Things such as window mounted stickers with bar coding can be used to greatly increase the efficiency of the process both in terms of seeing that insurance is in effect, but to also check.  Window mounted insurance stickers are already used in other states.


BTW H3 - it was not intended to be a citizen mover.  H3 was always intended to be a way to move troops, equipment, and material from KMCBH to Pearl/Hickam in times of national emergency.  The benefit derived from it is it has allowed another roadway to travel between the windward and leeward sides.

Hey GZ,
The bus vs rail pros and cons have been been thrown down already, so everyone will have their own opinion on that.  I personally would prefer rail, but my main issue is that Hawaii needs to pick something and do it.  If they selected a modified bus system, fine.  DO it.  I don't want to see another case of a plan starting, people disagreeing, plan stopping, nothing happening.  I sit in traffic, so I'd rather have a good plan now than a perfect plan never.  Yes, H3 was for Kbay and that is why the feds took out their wallet, but we all knew we were gonna have access to it.
We already got taxed for the rail.  If they were to cancel the project, I would hope that money would be put to an alternate like the bus and not disappear into various pockets. I don't want to chalk up the money already spent on rail as a loss if we stopped now.  I believe realignments would be done with a modified bus system as well, or any major traffic mod for that matter.  All would cost $$
I'll actually be impressed if the rail ever gets built.  I think Hawaii will somehow manage to get in its own way....again (Superferry).

I lived I'm Oregon where they have the Max, and they lose money on it every year. But due politics  they never tell the public that. I don't know maybe now a days with the economy in the swear pipes it might be a good idea, but then again, where in the hell is honolulu going to get the money?

The rail will be a failure and those of us who live on Oahu will continue to flip the bill for it.  That GE tax increase they tacked on for the rail will never go away.  Look at the bus... it is not 100% covered by its ridership, the City subsidizes it.  The rail will have the exact same problem and if you ask me it'll most likely be costlier.  And then some people who do utilize the rail may at some point in their journey have to transition to using the bus to get to their final destination.  The layout of our island community is not designed like the mainland where one can ride the rail, get off and walk one block to where it is one needs to be.  So at that point many people might just say heck with it and stick to the bus.  The majority of Hawaii's people are also too accustomed to the freedom of having their own personal vehicle close at hand.  The ability to get up and go at one's leisure, the ability to make multiple stops on the way to or from work to run errands, the ability to have a sense of freedom period.  With that in mind unless there is some great price hike in gas or vehicle taxes most people on Oahu will continue to drive.  I currently work construction and have no choice but to drive.  I'm based mostly at Tripler, but my company has work going on at all the military installations and I need to be able to go to a different job at a moments notice.

Vooduchikn hit the nail on the head nothing but stupid greedy politics driving the "need" for a waste of time idea.

So much money is being thrown at the problem. This is money that can be better spent. I hope we do not become like the worst of the bankrupt cities and states. We already have enough financial problems in Hawaii at the state and city/county level. The feds can keep printing money, the cities and states can only beg for more devalued dollars from the feds as more of our debt is monetized. The downward spiral continues...   

There is an article in today's paper stating that our reasons for qualifying for the $1.55B in Federal funding is weak and is no where near being approved. Besides an earlier article and claims by the city council to the contrary. Even with these funds we are going to be in financial hot water. And until we get these funds why are we authorizing work to be done? I saw them working on the station both Thursday and Friday.

You can bet the house on it that the federal monies for the rail are not fully guaranteed yet.  With the financial distress of the entire nation a rail system for an island just doesn't seem that important.  If our state and city leaders were as benevolent as they believe themselves to be they would have ended this fiasco and then written a bill allowing the GE tax increase monies to be reallocated to more worthwhile endeavors.

What i was wondering is why the rail doesnt take the same route as the old railway.  The tracks are still maintained from ewa beach into koolina and kahe point.  From what i understand old infustrcture, wires, cables, etc and still in use.  I know the cables run through waipahu along the old railroad line.  I would think that would be a easier way.

Also whats up with having to divert the river in kalihi because a support beam for the rail will be placed exactly in the river?  What dumbass figured that out.

I am not for the rail but it looks like we are getting it no matter how I feel about it. I lived in Los Angeles before, during and after they constructed their entire rail project. I was working for a company that was involved in all phases of construction and personally worked on the Blue Line. Three things strike me as pertinent.

1. They built the rail on the same level as the roads (not elevated or under ground) so the cars have to cross the rails at certain points. Even with all the signals and gates there are still constant collisions and people killed. And not just occasionally. It is a very common occurrence including the guy who tried to kill himself by stopping on the tracks. At least I can say having it elevated is going to cost a lot more up front but will save more money in the long term. Every time there is an accident the train has to be repaired and sometimes the tracks and intersections. Not to mention I am sure there are constant lawsuits.

2. The LA MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority) still loses money now years after completion and the city has one of the highest sales taxes (1.00%) they add on to the county sales tax (7.75% for a whopping 8.75% total sales tax). It is literally worth driving a few miles into Orange County to save that 1% sales tax on an auto purchase. I wonder what the equivalent to our GET/VAT tax is?

3. In California Orange County has decided their money is better spent widening the freeways and adding carpool only lanes (which they charge additional money to the individual driver for) instead of adding a branch to the rail. Of course then the freeway bottleneck occurs right at the LA/OC border. All they are doing is pushing their problem back into LA County.

The rail in Ewa Beach is not standard gauge.