The cops at the window are not gonna care and just following orders from above. U gotta talk to higher ranking hpd if u wanna change anything. But good idea visiting the AG.

My experience from Hilo is that 1. the AG won't comment or give any information or opinions on any law matters to citizens (because they don't work for us, the people, don't you know...), and 2. the locals will protect via the "attorney client privilege" claim any information about any matter that they ever involved any attorney in. [insert string of bad words here]

Also file a class action lawsuit , to recover the $40 fee that many may be forced to pay in these few month.

I dont think we will be able to get around the Fee, The fee for rapback enrollment is only $13. the rest is to cover the additional costs of the background checks.

The cops at the window are not gonna care and just following orders from above. U gotta talk to higher ranking hpd if u wanna change anything. But good idea visiting the AG.

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Its not that they dont care, Its they dont want to lose their job, I can almost guarantee that a sergeant will be at the window waiting for me.

The thing about it is, You have to speak to every monkey on the way up the tree to show that there intent to violate the law/my rights and that its not just some guy on the bottom making up rules/laws.

they dont like the fact that I understand the laws better then most and i wont let them get away with making up shit.

I can almost guarantee that a sergeant will be at the window waiting for me. ..........




........... fact that I understand the laws better then most and i wont let them get away with making up shit.

 

Plans for Tommorow,

Head to HPD to apply for a permit.

Visit the AG's Office to ask for some documents,

Visit the Hawaii Criminal Justice Center to ask for documentation and an explanation of rapback.

I'm going down to HPD tomorrow to help support your effort.

I'm going down to HPD tomorrow to help support your effort.

Thanks Zippz, See you in the AM, anyone else is welcome to come i will be there first thing (traffic permitting) when the doors open.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA THANKS ZIPPZ !!!!!!@!

iF YOU HAVE ALREADY HAD A PERMIT YOU DONT NEED TO PAY !!!!!!!!


HPD HAS TO EAT THE COST.

 "(i)  No fee shall be charged for permits, or applications for permits, under this section, except for a single fee chargeable by and payable to the issuing county, for individuals applying for their first permit,

NO PHOTOS OR FINGER PRINTS EITHER

Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.

(Only if registering, For permits still can)

NO PHOTOS OR FINGER PRINTS EITHER

very person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.

I guess they keep losing them, cause they been doing it every time lately.

I guess they keep losing them, cause they been doing it every time lately.

Well im sorry im going to follow the law, and anyone that wants to get in my way dont know whats coming.

Well im sorry im going to follow the law, and anyone that wants to get in my way dont know whats coming.

ANY ONE WHO GOES TO HPD AND SIGNS THE RAPBACK AUTHORIZATION FORMS IS DOING SO OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. 

SB2954 DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ENROLLMENT IN  RAPBACK OR REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE RAPBACK CONSENT WAIVER. ENROLLMENT IS 100% VOLUNTARY
 

I found a problem to this in 846-2.7.

(d)  The applicant, employee, or volunteer subject to a criminal history record check shall provide to the requesting agency or qualified entity:
    (1)  Consent to obtain the applicant's, employee's, or volunteer's fingerprints, conduct the criminal history record check, and participate in the rap back program;
...


http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.htm
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0846/HRS_0846-0002_0007.htm

London808, I read the law and I think I understand it more...

1.  The law should have stated you have to sign the FBI privacy waiver, like how 134-2 states a medical waiver must be signed to get a permit.  So therefore they have no power to make you sign it.  If they deny the permit, then they are denying your 2a rights for something you don't have to do.  Same with registrations.  Nevermind per post above and below.

2.  They cannot charge the fee for a permit to acquire if you had prior permits, due to they can only charge fees for first permits.

3.  They could charge a fee for first and subsequent registrations since there is no "first" wording.

4.  They cannot do Rapback on License to Carry as rapback only affects permits to acquire and firearms registration.

5.  Not sure why LE need to do rapback for personal weapons.  They should already be in rapback for their job.  To add to this, everyone currently in rapback shouldn't have to pay the rapback fee or fill out the additional forms.

I found a problem to this in 846-2.7.

(d)  The applicant, employee, or volunteer subject to a criminal history record check shall provide to the requesting agency or qualified entity:
    (1)  Consent to obtain the applicant's, employee's, or volunteer's fingerprints, conduct the criminal history record check, and participate in the rap back program;
...


http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2016/bills/SB2954_HD1_.htm

Zippz is right, Looks like i had an old copy of the law, (friken Hawaii) so part of the HJDC's background check is enrollment

I bet half the people in this forum is already in rapback for their jobs, and thus shouldn't have to pay.  But forcing people to be in rapback because of their right to arms is illegal, and in my interpretation, also illegal to be put into a 'gun registration' federally, or otherwise, per the firearms owners protection act.    IANAL though. 

"No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation." 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

Well, I was going to take off a couple of hours this morning and go down there to renew my rifle permit. But my boss called in sick so now I have to wait.

OK, so the GOFUND ME got approved.

https://www.gofundme.com/stop-rapback-in-the-state-of-hawaii

Paypal is the better option because there is no fees, but i know a lot of people like the click click options of gofund me and it seems more legit.

I bet half the people in this forum is already in rapback for their jobs, and thus shouldn't have to pay.  But forcing people to be in rapback because of their right to arms is illegal, and in my interpretation, also illegal to be put into a 'gun registration' federally, or otherwise, per the firearms owners protection act.    IANAL though. 

That's me.  However, I was wondering about the notification process.  I was reading about RapBack on the FBI website and other articles.  I'm not sure either way, but I'm wondering if individual agencies have to request notification.  As in say I am in the system for past employment, that agency/employer requests notification from the FBI as to any activity.  Kind of like a credit report/check.  So just because I am in the system for agency/employer #1, does that information get sent to any future agency/employer?  Again, I am not sure either way, so hence the question.   

I guess I just don't know how the notification system works.  Reading all the employment types that are required for RapBack just in Hawaii alone, that's a lot of people for ALL agencies to get notified.  The reason this came up is that where I work, we have to renew our creds every 10 years.  I recall that them mentioning that "if something happens, like you get arrested, it's better if you notify them ASAP and as opposed to waiting until it gets flagged in your next review". 

Doesn't answer the question about the fees, but I was just wondering about applicability of just being in the system and notification.

I've tried to the statues and part about FOPA myself and I concur.  At least the way I read it.  I should discuss with one of by buddies, who is both a gun owner and former prosecutor.  Then again, his interpretation of the use of deadly force laws has been, uh, different than mine.  I'll just leave it at that. 

That's me.  However, I was wondering about the notification process.  I was reading about RapBack on the FBI website and other articles.  I'm not sure either way, but I'm wondering if individual agencies have to request notification.  As in say I am in the system for past employment, that agency/employer requests notification from the FBI as to any activity.  Kind of like a credit report/check.  So just because I am in the system for agency/employer #1, does that information get sent to any future agency/employer?  Again, I am not sure either way, so hence the question.   

I guess I just don't know how the notification system works.  Reading all the employment types that are required for RapBack just in Hawaii alone, that's a lot of people for ALL agencies to get notified.  The reason this came up is that where I work, we have to renew our creds every 10 years.  I recall that them mentioning that "if something happens, like you get arrested, it's better if you notify them ASAP and as opposed to waiting until it gets flagged in your next review". 

Doesn't answer the question about the fees, but I was just wondering about applicability of just being in the system and notification.

I've tried to the statues and part about FOPA myself and I concur.  At least the way I read it.  I should discuss with one of by buddies, who is both a gun owner and former prosecutor.  Then again, his interpretation of the use of deadly force laws has been, uh, different than mine.  I'll just leave it at that.

Shoot I go thru almost the same 10 year check as part of my security clearance. Wonder if I'm already in the system and if so do I gotta pay again to get be put in again.

Shoot I go thru almost the same 10 year check as part of my security clearance. Wonder if I'm already in the system and if so do I gotta pay again to get be put in again.

I haven't confirmed that I am in, but from my work requirements, to having applied for clearance for previous jobs, etc., I'd be willing to bet that I'm already in RapBack.  Sounds like we're in the same boat. 

I'm not worried about being in the RapBack system really.  Just that the Hawaii law makers successful attempt at making this a law, hopefully just for now. 

London - I'll be contributing for sure as well as spreading the word.