Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.

Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?

Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?

Heard from some today that it's a one time check and if your clear your not in rap back, anyone ha w clarification on this?

I have, I went to HPD, stood in line, a luitent (I believe) came put to tell people they need to pay $42. I told him he was wrong and that it was only for first time applicants. Then I had the major (top guy in the firearms decision) come out to me and ask what I'm planing on doing, I told him I'm not paying the fee, he told me I won't be getting A permit, he left came back about 4-5 minutes latter he then threatened to arrest me if I video tape in the room with the window, told Him I was audio recording but if I wanted to video I could as it's an area open to the public.

Got to the window was given the forms and asked for $42, I told them I was not paying, they told me to fill out the forms, I asked who issued the rapback forms and if they were approved by the AG, was told no they come from the FBI, I told them I can't sign them then, was told to fill out the other forms. Turnt them in was was told to come back in 2 weeks.

Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.

I think that a lot of you are attacking the issues with the wrong approach.  I think it would be smarter to first ask how they came up with the $42 fee.

HRS §846-2.7 is partially an enabling statute; it basically authorizes the HCJDC to set a "reasonable fee."  this usually means that there is some kind of Hawaii Administrative Rule that is tied to the HCJDC's power to set fees.  any HAR has to go through the normal legal process prior to it becoming effective.

in case you're not following me, what i'm saying is that the $42 fee needs to appear somewhere in order for them to officially charge us that amount.  prior to this whole rap back thing, the fingerprinting fee was directly tied to the amount actually charged by the FBI.  now, there needs to be some kind of corresponding HAR that would administratively set the "reasonable" amount.

take a look at these:  http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fees-for-Hawaii-Criminal-Justice-Data-Center-Services.pdf
http://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Amendments-to-Criminal-History-Record-Check-Fees.pdf

the foregoing links are to the HAR chapters that set the HCJDC fees.  i suspect that the $42 fee is ultra vires, but i could be wrong since i've only done a brief amount of research.  it is also possible that the $42 fee is a combination of fees.

what's even more interesting is the fact that the amount paid at the HPD counter seems to have no clear relationship to the amounts owed by the HCJDC to the FBI.

also, in case you're wondering where i got the links from, all of the HAR is posted on the LtG's website:  http://ltgov.hawaii.gov/the-office/administrative-rules/

specifically, you're looking for Title 5, which relates to the Attorney General.


i'd be pretty pissed at you if i were standing in line behind you and you decided to give them coins.  Please don't make the line any longer than it needs to be.  Although you think that you're making life difficult for the officers behind the window, just realize that they're probably salary workers and have no quota/commission to incentivize expeditious service.  this means that you're only wasting the time of the other people in line.

if you're still insistent on doing this, please pick a time that there is no one else in line behind you.

I have, I went to HPD, stood in line, a luitent (I believe) came put to tell people they need to pay $42. I told him he was wrong and that it was only for first time applicants. Then I had the major (top guy in the firearms decision) come out to me and ask what I'm planing on doing, I told him I'm not paying the fee, he told me I won't be getting A permit, he left came back about 4-5 minutes latter he then threatened to arrest me if I video tape in the room with the window, told Him I was audio recording but if I wanted to video I could as it's an area open to the public.

Got to the window was given the forms and asked for $42, I told them I was not paying, they told me to fill out the forms, I asked who issued the rapback forms and if they were approved by the AG, was told no they come from the FBI, I told them I can't sign them then, was told to fill out the other forms. Turnt them in was was told to come back in 2 weeks.

Just so you guys are aware that's the 3rd time HPD has threatened to arrest me for them violating my rights.

Out of curiosity how many of you will not buy firearms anymore due to this bs. Maybe this should be a poll. This will def affect our local firearm  businesses

This most likely was suggested to them by HPD.

Then I guess you or anyone else for that matter, will be pissed off. As for going when no one else is in the room, I'll consult my crystal ball prior to going to HPD. I didn't make the line, our stupid state government and HPD did. Coins are as good as cash. The problem is the dolts behind the counter will have to take off their shoes in order to count the rolls......

Seems to me there  are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours.  Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.

I don't mind paying $42 for something I use and something that benefits me.  Like paying car registration taxes helps to maintain the roads I drive on.  Rapback doesn't benefit me and it doesn't seem to benefit society much either so it's a waste of money.

I don't mind paying $42 for something I use and something that benefits me.  Like paying car registration taxes helps to maintain the roads I drive on.  Rapback doesn't benefit me and it doesn't seem to benefit society much either so it's a waste of money.

Seems to me there  are two issues here. Being entered into the rap back program and the other being the $42.00. I can see the rap back being a bother to some. But the $42.00 dollars? I'm sure you've spent that plus a lot more on your sport in a single day. Going down with coins? Childish.... If i'm behind you in line and you whip out the fee in coins, I'll be very disappointed. You're punishing the people behind you. Better you give the money to London808. The only thing HPD understands is litigation. By the way, for those of you that think HPD didn't have anything to do with the rap back program think again. The legislators are not smart enough to think up of this on their own. This most likely was suggested to them by HPD. Every day the legislature is in session there are two HPD officers there looking out for HPD's interests, not yours.  Now go out a solicit donations, after you donate.

The $42 fee is not something i have an issue with, Although i dont think i should have to seek consent to exercise a constitutional right, I can see why a fee is charged to cover the costs of a BG check.

The issue here is not the $ value of the fee but the application of paying it. The law clearly states that the fee for a permit is for the first aplication. HPD is ignoring the law and is instead charging it to every application and registration. If they want us to follow the law they need to as well.

I have to wait untill the 19th of December to see if they are going to deny my permit application based on not paying the $42 fee and/or not singing the repback forms.