Can some one who has enrolled in rapback already and is willing to try something extremely unique and exciting please message me, Preferably some one that dosent mind challenging authority.

challenging authority.
If I was enrolled, I'd definitely be your huckleberry !   

$ sent

Can some one who has enrolled in rapback already and is willing to try something extremely unique and exciting please message me, Preferably some one that dosent mind challenging authority.

I can't promise I would be willing to do what you have in mind but it sounds right up my alley.

I was told at a local gun store today of some fine print on the rap back waiver, a loophole perhaps. I have not yet purchased a gun so I don't have my own copy to verify though.

I was told that in the fine print on the form there is an opt out option. Since we are put in voluntarily by signing the waiver, there is supposed to be a clause that we can write to a certain address saying that we wish to remove our names from the rap back list and when we send them a letter they will take us off rap back.

If this loophole is correct then we might just be able to purchase a gun then go and write the feds asking them to remove us from the list. One problem though may be that when we buy a gun they will find out we are not in and we will have to pay the $42 again.


Does anyone have a copy of the rap back paper to see if this true?

I was told at a local gun store today of some fine print on the rap back waiver, a loophole perhaps. I have not yet purchased a gun so I don't have my own copy to verify though.

I was told that in the fine print on the form there is an opt out option. Since we are put in voluntarily by signing the waiver, there is supposed to be a clause that we can write to a certain address saying that we wish to remove our names from the rap back list and when we send them a letter they will take us off rap back.

If this loophole is correct then we might just be able to purchase a gun then go and write the feds asking them to remove us from the list. One problem though may be that when we buy a gun they will find out we are not in and we will have to pay the $42 again.


Does anyone have a copy of the rap back paper to see if this true?

Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.

Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.

In other words, if it sounds to good to be true... 

Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.

Just saw this on Hawaii Free Press site. It's the AG notice re RapBack:

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/18941/Hawaii-Gun-Owners-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Fact-Sheet.aspx

One part:

To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer will be sufficient documentation.

* * * * *
I have to wonder what sort of "documentation" would suffice to verify that you have moved all your firearms to a secured storage locker in Arizona? I'll write the AG right now and let you if I ever get an answer. Likely not as they "cannot give legal advice or answer legal questions for the public".

I just received this email response from the AG's office. As expected. This is the same person I was referred to to answer the questions about how a determination was made regarding registering a particular configuration of a firearm that was deemed "legal" on Oahu and "illegal" on Hawaii island, and in that case I got no response at all.

Aloha [punaperson],

I have been forwarded your email in which you requested information on what documentation is sufficient to be unenrolled from Rap Back.  I would like to point out, that only those who registered firearms after December 4, 2016 are entered into Rap Back.  Therefore, if you had firearms registered PRIOR to this date, you are not enrolled into Rap Back.

You must contact the police chief of the county in which your firearms are registered for information regarding what documentation is sufficient to be unenrolled from Rap Back.

I regret that we are unable to help you.

Regards,

Karen A. Droscoski

Deputy Attorney General
Department of the Attorney General
Criminal Justice Division
333 Queen Street, Suite 200
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
(808) 586-1086

Just saw this on Hawaii Free Press site. It's the AG notice re RapBack:

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/18941/Hawaii-Gun-Owners-lsquoRap-Backrsquo-Fact-Sheet.aspx

One part:

To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer will be sufficient documentation.

* * * * *
I have to wonder what sort of "documentation" would suffice to verify that you have moved all your firearms to a secured storage locker in Arizona? I'll write the AG right now and let you if I ever get an answer. Likely not as they "cannot give legal advice or answer legal questions for the public".

https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf

● To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show
documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are
no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms
have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer
will be sufficient documentation.

I belive that would only remove you from the reporting part of rapback and not from the FBI database itself.

https://ag.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rap-Back-Facts-Sheet-Final-12-7-16-002.pdf

● To be unenrolled from Rap Back, a registrant must show
documentation that all of his or her registered firearms are
no longer in Hawaii, or have been sold. Proof that firearms
have been transferred to a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer
will be sufficient documentation.

I belive that would only remove you from the reporting part of rapback and not from the FBI database itself.

The FBI biometrics database, NGI, is forever.  They may archive records once you're deceased to save space, but they still have it.

Think of it as AFIS, the Fingerprint System.  Once you're in that system via whatever source, the prints remain and can be used to find matches from then on.  NGI is going to replace and expand upon AFIS.  Fingerprints are just one type of biometric.

I talked to the manager of the NRA ILA at Shot Show.  He didn't know much about Hawaii's Rapback law, which is interesting in that NRA put out articles about it and I'm sure lots of other people submitted inquiries.  He's going to get me a contact for our regional ILA representative to discuss the matter.  They can also help give us some guidance on grassroots initiatives.

Tomorrow I'll visit SAF to see if I can get their support.

I talked to the manager of the NRA ILA at Shot Show.  He didn't know much about Hawaii's Rapback law, which is interesting in that NRA put out articles about it and I'm sure lots of other people submitted inquiries.  He's going to get me a contact for our regional ILA representative to discuss the matter.  They can also help give us some guidance on grassroots initiatives.

Tomorrow I'll visit SAF to see if I can get their support.

Awesome, Its so hard with big groups like the NRA to 1: get the right person and 2: get the same person.   

Good job zippz

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Its only if there is errors in the criminal history, and only with consent of the subscribing agency.

So it doesn't matter whether we are entered voluntarily (like how gun owners are) or done by someone (like an employer) without your consent?

I was thinking of going ahead and entering so I can get the form and post the exact wording.

So it doesn't matter whether we are entered voluntarily (like how gun owners are) or done by someone (like an employer) without your consent?

I was thinking of going ahead and entering so I can get the form and post the exact wording.

The form is right here on the 2nd page of this thread. I posted a reply to one of your other posts with the link before.  Check the link.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.msg226844#msg226844

If you enter by an employer you need to give consent.  The difference is that you don't have a constitutionally-guaranteed right to have a job at such and such place.  It's up to you if you want that job. 

You cannot be searched, monitored, and prodded without warrant or cause with out giving your consent.

You do have a right to keep and bear arms, without infringement, and under sensible and reasonable regulation. 

And Looks like soon we will be having even more burdens heaped upon us because we wish to exercise our rights.

Every gun owner in this state needs to get mobilized. 

i talked to three fbi agents at shot show one day and non of them even heard or know what it was. the next day a fbi agent said she did not know but will have the agent in her office that is in the rap back department reply email to my questions on monday. not holding my breath but we will see will post emil if one ever comes

I discussed RAPBACK with the founder, Alan M. Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org).  He was familiar with Hawaii's Rapback law and the organization will not pursue a civil case as they do not think it would succeed.  Like the NRA, SAF appears to be a large organization but is actually limited in resources.  They only pursue cases they have a good chance of  winning and have a wide ranging effect.  They also don't like to challenge cases in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals because they know it is almost impossible to win.

They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records.  Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.

I discussed RAPBACK with the founder, Alan M. Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org).  He was familiar with Hawaii's Rapback law and the organization will not pursue a civil case as they do not think it would succeed.  Like the NRA, SAF appears to be a large organization but is actually limited in resources.  They only pursue cases they have a good chance of  winning and have a wide ranging effect.  They also don't like to challenge cases in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals because they know it is almost impossible to win.

They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records.  Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.

That was my understanding and what I was getting at in the other thread about whether on not you would buy another firearm.  Yes, many of us have gone through high level screening via FBI, DHS, etc.  But it is the notification of the department/office/agency that is key in this instance.  For example, if I were to get arrested and convicted of say espionage in Virginia.  I am sure my security folks at my work will get notified about it.  However, just because my background check is "in the system", it was my understanding that the department/office in Hawaii that will be handling Rapback for firearms owners would get an alert or email.  In essence, it's not like being in "the system" for other reasons means that you are being tracked by anyone who has access to that system.  I may have misunderstood how the system works and how it was explained to me, but that's my understanding. 

Ultimately, I am against Rapback for many reasons.  Most of it has to do with principle as well as the haze in which surrounds the whole stink of a "law". 

I discussed RAPBACK with the founder, Alan M. Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org).  He was familiar with Hawaii's Rapback law and the organization will not pursue a civil case as they do not think it would succeed.  Like the NRA, SAF appears to be a large organization but is actually limited in resources.  They only pursue cases they have a good chance of  winning and have a wide ranging effect.  They also don't like to challenge cases in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals because they know it is almost impossible to win.

They explained that the records of firearm owners are held by the State, not the FBI, and that the FBI notifies the state of people who commit criminal acts which are then matched with the records.  Therefore it is not considered a Federal firearm owners database.

They are incorrect. Your information is inputted into the FBI data base and when a trigger effect happens it notifys the Local PD. If that was not the case. You wouldn't need to sign the waiver for the FBI to hold your records. The reason you are added to the database is for "Firearms"

The form is right here on the 2nd page of this thread. I posted a reply to one of your other posts with the link before.  Check the link.

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=25686.msg226844#msg226844

If you enter by an employer you need to give consent.  The difference is that you don't have a constitutionally-guaranteed right to have a job at such and such place.  It's up to you if you want that job. 

You cannot be searched, monitored, and prodded without warrant or cause with out giving your consent.

You do have a right to keep and bear arms, without infringement, and under sensible and reasonable regulation. 

And Looks like soon we will be having even more burdens heaped upon us because we wish to exercise our rights.

Every gun owner in this state needs to get mobilized.

Thanks for the link but what the gun store owner explained to me sounded like a federal form while the ones linked are state forms. Of course I could be misunderstanding but it would be nice if there was a loophole we could exploit so I will see what else I can gather.