Out of curiousi by  if hawaii was to be invaded by a foreign army what woul you do? Would you keep your heads down? Would you run and hide or would you fight?

I would cry. Nah. But honestly I don't think the US would let us get invaded. The US would probably blow us up before they let anyone have us.

I think I am more afraid of some the lunatics that run countries such as North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc. I am afraid of one (or more) of these countries attacking one of our allies pulling us into another never ending war or worse a limited nuclear war. And let's not forget about countries like Pakistan that has nuclear capabilities and having the Taliban possibly getting their hands on some sort of nuclear weapon or material from them. All due to the unstable nature of the Pakistan government. I believe these would be more apt to occur than an invasion of Hawaii.

BTW, I really believe that as long as every country in the world thinks that the US population is fully armed and capable of defending themselves that no one would even consider an invasion of Hawaii. But in case a country is that stupid and and that capable I believe you will see the population fight back with extreme tenacity. I know I would do my part.

I think I am more afraid of some the lunatics that run countries such as North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc. I am afraid of one (or more) of these countries attacking one of our allies pulling us into another never ending war or worse a limited nuclear war. And let's not forget about countries like Pakistan that has nuclear capabilities and having the Taliban possibly getting their hands on some sort of nuclear weapon or material from them. All due to the unstable nature of the Pakistan government. I believe these would be more apt to occur than an invasion of Hawaii.

BTW, I really believe that as long as every country in the world thinks that the US population is fully armed and capable of defending themselves that no one would even consider an invasion of Hawaii. But in case a country is that stupid and and that capable I believe you will see the population fight back with extreme tenacity. I know I would do my part.

The second paragraph is probably the main reason the USA hasn't been invaded (illegal aliens aside).

Hawaii is actually a fairly likely target if the US economy were to collapse. If China were to take advantage of that situation and start expanding its territory Hawaii would be a desirable acquisition for the same reason the US holds on to it so fiercely: the Pearl is the seat of power in the Pacific. This is highly unlikely given China's history, but possible.

The military will still be here even if that happens, though. Makes Hawaii a very, very difficult target. If it were to actually be invaded the Military might make use of civilian militias. That would be the best way to defend Hawaii from invasion. We gun saavy civilians can think we're badass but rudimentary unit tactics tend to shred disorganized resistance. Sniping can certainly have an impact, but the invading force is going to have snipers, too. Unless the civilian resistance is organized it won't likely do much more than slow the invasion a bit and get a bunch of gun owners killed. Possibly even cause some problems for the military operations.

Just being realistic.

We have good guns and we know how to use them, for sure, but going up against teams of trained soldiers each with automatic assault rifles supported by SAW's and designated marksmen? Air support? Drones? Armor and artillery?

There is a huge power in having an easily mobilized, armed civilian force, though, and any invading force would realize that - even without efficient military organization. I have a feeling that the military would call on Hawaii's gun owners and provide rudimentary training in unit tactics should the need arise. If nothing else we could help with logistics so that better trained soldiers are freed up for the front lines. And I'd expect ex-military to be called on to rejoin the main force. The US Military will NOT let the Pearl go without every ounce of fight it can put up - and it would probably be in the best interest of the civilians to do everything they can to support that.

Its one of the reason I'd want to have NATO caliber weapons on hand. I can provide my own ammo to a point but it would be nice to save that for hunting if it comes down to it.

All they gotta do is blockade our ports and wait till we starve ourselves.   Then our leaders will be begging for mercy and give the keys to the city.  Then the insurgency will begin!

WOLVERINES!

Good reason for a thriving local agricultural economy, you would think. 

Between Kauai, Maui and the Big Island we could have PLENTY of locally produced food. Then the military would only need to protect inter-island transport instead of a 2000 mile life line.

I'm kind of surprised that the Military has not already demanded this as a matter of national security. But then food security is only recently being considered part of national defense and homeland security. The conversation might be in process already since almost everywhere in the US food comes from someplace else. Hawaii is just an extreme example of it.

I have to find the self sufficiency plan Hawaii had. 

The US will protect us and Hawaiian activist will still keep bad mouthing the US.

WOLVERINES!

YEAH!! WOOLLVVEEERRIIINNNEESSSS!!!

Roflmao.

Oh, Hawaiian activists have every reason to bad mouth the U.S. Its a matter of public record that the U.S. stole Hawaii from its democratic government. (The Queen was elected as was the parliament. She was, however, about to disband the parliament to hobble special interest powers there... which is why those special interest powers took over the government.) This is quite simply truth.

Won't make any difference, though. Such activists are a fairly small minority and the U.S. Military is not likely to go away under any circumstances except that this mythological invasion manages to be a success. And the invaders aren't going to then give Hawaii back to the Ali'i. This is reality.

In grade school Teacher will sometimes enforce the rules to make things "fair". This isn't grade school and it is not "fair". Assuming it should and will be fair is somewhat foolish, regardless of the "rightness" of it.

For crapsake you guys, go watch the football game

For crapsake you guys, go watch the football game

This.

Stop posting about shit you have zero clue about, you make tin foil prices go up...

Quote from: tonsofguns on January 22, 2012, 02:40:06 PM

For crapsake you guys, go watch the football game

This.

Stop posting about shit you have zero clue about, you make tin foil prices go up...

 

W

Oh, Hawaiian activists have every reason to bad mouth the U.S. Its a matter of public record that the U.S. stole Hawaii from its democratic government. (The Queen was elected as was the parliament. She was, however, about to disband the parliament to hobble special interest powers there... which is why those special interest powers took over the government.) This is quite simply truth.

Won't make any difference, though. Such activists are a fairly small minority and the U.S. Military is not likely to go away under any circumstances except that this mythological invasion manages to be a success. And the invaders aren't going to then give Hawaii back to the Ali'i. This is reality.

In grade school Teacher will sometimes enforce the rules to make things "fair". This isn't grade school and it is not "fair". Assuming it should and will be fair is somewhat foolish, regardless of the "rightness" of it.

What constitutes a "legal" overthrow? 

Closest thing is an invasion ordered by the President and authorized by congress. None of that happened.

The Queen was overthrown by a coalition of businessmen protected by company of Marines landed ~without~ anything but local officers authorizing it. The Queen instructed her people to NOT fight saying "They are a nation of laws and this will be corrected shortly."

Apparently not.

President Cleveland was livid and, as the Queen thought he would, immediately began working to restore Hawaii to its rightful, elected government. Before that happened McKinley took office and he supported the annexation of Hawaii.

The coup was not an official act of the U.S.... but the government under McKinley took advantage of the situation and decided to let the coup stand anyway. The Navy moved in pretty much right away to secure the Pearl and thus America's power over the Pacific.

Everyone should just get over the fact that there was nothing above board about either the coup or the subsequent "vote" for statehood. Its fact, a matter of public record and multiple official apologies on the part of presidents and congress. And it changes nothing and will never change anything. The US came by a lot of its land ownership illegally or underhandedly. We'd do well to recognize that and not pretend we have a spotless, bloodless, perfectly legal and shiney record as a nation. We don't. And still.... nothing will change about that ownership. Its just about recognizing the truth of it instead of lying to ourselves and one another.

In Hawaii, had it not been the U.S. it would probably have been Japan. Kalakaua, knowing this, actually petitioned the Japanese Emperor to become a part of the Japanese Empire. The Emperor turned him down not wanting to cause tension with the U.S. over their business interests. When that relationship soured during WWII Japan would have snacked up an independent Hawaii in a heartbeat. The world would look pretty different today if Hawaii had not then been a U.S. territory, wouldn't it?

So the sovereignty folks really need to stop whining. Sure. It wasn't "legal." The U.S. is not the perfect champion of "freedom" and "democracy" that politician rhetoric tries to make it out to be today. And?

The world would look pretty different today if Hawaii had not then been a U.S. territory, wouldn't it?

It would indeed, instead of Nagasaki or Hiroshima,  Honolulu could have been turned into a glass parking lot.   

Don't know if you hang out downtown much, but Japan has pretty much "annexed" Waikiki. 

No idea how many veterans with combat and/or marksmanship training live here, but suspect it is not minor.  My neighbor is a Korea vet, VN for me.  None of us olde fartes are up for running hills, but we do know basic formations, cover, and manuerver.   Not shock troops, but a force to be reckoned with.

I have a feeling that the military would call on Hawaii's gun owners and provide rudimentary training in unit tactics should the need arise. If nothing else we could help with logistics so that better trained soldiers are freed up for the front lines. And I'd expect ex-military to be called on to rejoin the main force. The US Military will NOT let the Pearl go without every ounce of fight it can put up - and it would probably be in the best interest of the civilians to do everything they can to support that.

Its one of the reason I'd want to have NATO caliber weapons on hand. I can provide my own ammo to a point but it would be nice to save that for hunting if it comes down to it.

So the sovereignty folks really need to stop whining. Sure. It wasn't "legal." The U.S. is not the perfect champion of "freedom" and "democracy" that politician rhetoric tries to make it out to be today.

Thank you, Thank you, thank you. Yes they do need to stop whining. I'm 1/4 Hawaiian, I was a flaming lib as a teen saying "yeah "F" the haloes deah had steal da land" I used to say that all the time got out of high school and I was still saying the samething. Then I started opening my eyes, doing my own research, reading more and man was I blown away with what I didn't know. Yes the overthrow was wrong, but I hold no ill will tword the US at all Hawaii has been conquered over and over and over again it started when the marquesans came here first then the Tahitians killed a lot of Marquesans implemented the "Kapu" system, it lasted for a long time, Kamehameha I united the Hawaiian islands by "force" I'm sure everyone has seen the picture of the battle of Nu'uanu ridge Kauai is the only island that held out. Kamehameha I tried twice but failed first due to a storm second due to epidemic. Finely Kaumualii said he didn't want blood shed and just gave the island to Kamehameha I on one condition just leave him as the chief of Kauai, which he did up until Kamehameha I died. Then his son exiled Kaumialii on Oahu, then years went by Hawaiian ali'i's started selling land off, wait let me say that again, ali'i's started selling land off the Sinclairs bought Ni'ihau for $10,000 and land on Kauai for another $10,000 back in 1866-68.
Then the overthrow. Yep, you try to talk to hardcore Hawaiian activist and you just watch there eyes glaze over, or maybe because they just smoked a fatty, I don't know, but they won't here it all they think is, coco good white bad. But heres the best part, you guys know it's haole this, haole that, but I know a lot of these guys some of them my really good friends, there married to blonde haired blue eyed women.

Me and my friends were talking guns one night at my Hawaiian culture class I forgot what we were talking about but one of the guys jumped in saying "Oh yeah, shoot all the haloes" I quickly looked at him and said " My son and daughter is haole, my wife is haole" it was quite for a second then he says in a really nerves  "Oh mine to" I just stared at him and started shaking my head.

That's why I always say educate yourself before you say something stupid god knows I've done it a bunch of times. Now my fingers hurt from typing.

At the rate the Obama administration is going it is scary....FEMA Camps, Passing of the NDAA, Obama's Army Americorps and massive violations against the contstitution. makes you wonder who the real enemy against the people is.  An invasion from China would not surprise me someday.  Farfetched but I will never rule it out.