Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again (Read 156511 times)

punaperson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #240 on: July 11, 2017, 11:33:53 AM »
[comparison photos of glacier retreat in 20th century]
 :o
At least one of those photos is from Glacier National Park. https://petapixel.com/2015/10/25/these-before-and-after-photos-show-how-glaciers-in-the-us-are-melting/



What that article and video fails to mention is that that area has been both under much more extensive glaciation AND TOTALLY FREE OF ANY GLACIATION MANY TIMES IN THE PAST (virtually every "interglacial" period prior to the current one being either 1. before human activity could have had any activity on climate, or 2. before any humans even existed). Not sure (haha!) why the people claiming that THIS current de-glaciation is caused by human activity and FAIL TO MENTION all the other numerous de-glaciations that occurred without any possible influence of humans.

Here is an excellent brief paper (with maps) from the U.S. Department of Interior, U.S. Geological Survey regarding the intermittent glaciation of the Glacier National Park area:

https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1993/0510/report.pdf

Some excerpts:

INTRODUCTION

Glacier National Park presently contains only about 50 small glaciers. Many of
these glaciers are in remote and inaccessible areas rarely visited by anyone.
However, the park is applicably named as the spectacular scenery that surrounds the
visitor everywhere is due to the great glaciers that occupied the park and surrounding
region until quite recently (geologically speaking, of course)
. These great glaciers
scoured the high areas of the park forming the jagged peaks and sheer walls that we
find so breath-taking. In the lower areas of the park these glaciers deposited their
great loads of debris damming many of the valleys and forming the beautiful large
lakes that the park is noted for. This pamphlet will provide you with information about
the glacial history of Glacier National Park, features of glacial erosion and deposition
in the park that you can see first hand, and some general information on glaciers and
ice ages.

THE GLACIAL HISTORY OF THE GLACIER NATIONAL PARK REGION
FROM THE TIME OF THE LAST MAJOR GLACIATION TO THE PRESENT

During the maximum extent of the last major glaciation (the Wisconsin glaciation)
about 20,000 years ago
, much of northwestern Montana, including the Glacier
National Park region, was covered by glaciers (fig. 1). To the west, the Cordilleran ice
sheet advanced into this region from Canada. The easternmost lobe of that ice sheet,
the Flathead lobe, flowed south into the present-day Flathead Lake area. To the east,
the Shelby lobe of the Laurentide ice sheet advanced from Canada across the
Montana plains almost as far south as the present-day city of Great Falls. Between
these two large ice sheets, valley glaciers and ice fields flourished in the mountains
along the Continental Divide. West of the divide, some of these glaciers merged with
the Flathead lobe of the Cordilleran ice sheet. East of the divide, glaciers advanced
beyond the mountain front onto the plains where they spread out laterally to form large
piedmont glaciers.

Deglaciation of the Glacier National Park region is thought to have been completed
more than 10,000 years ago.
A volcanic ash that erupted about 11,200 years ago from
Glacier Peak volcano, about 350 miles to the west in Washington State, has been
identified at nine sites in the Glacier National Park region (fig. 2), where it rests on
glacial deposits. Therefore, this ash indicates that the underlying glacial deposits are
at least 11,200 years old. The locations at which this ash was found indicate that
deglaciation of the Glacier National Park region was at least 90 percent complete by
that time. Remaining glaciers, if any, were confined to valleys within the Livingston
and Lewis Ranges. By 10,000 years ago, remaining glaciers probably were confined
to those cirques and well-shaded niches where present-day glaciers and snowfields
lie.


During the next several thousand years, temperatures in the Glacier National Park
region were several degrees warmer than they are now and there were fewer
glaciers.
Some of the larger glaciers may have survived this warm period, but many of
the park's smaller glaciers probably did not exist at this time. This warm period ended
sometime between 5,000 and 3,000 years ago. [Note that they can't pin this down to a more
accurate time than 2,000 years earlier or later (and that was only 3,000 to 5,000 years ago)...
and people are now clamoring about things in mere human (perspective) lifespans... totally
lacking in geological perspective.] After it ended existing glaciers probably increased in size,
others may have been formed.

A significant advance of glaciers around the world, referred to as the "Little Ice
Age", occurred between about AD 1500 and 1900.
In Glacier National Park, glaciers
reached their maximum extent during the mid-19th century. Although glaciers
produced during this advance were small compared to those of full-glacial conditions,
this advance was the most extensive since the end of the Wisconsin glaciation. During
the Little Ice Age, there were about 150 glaciers in the park. These glaciers ranged in
size from small ice bodies of only a few acres to the Blackfoot Glacier, which covered
about 1875 acres and encompassed the area of the present-day Blackfoot and
Jackson Glaciers. The Mt Jackson area of the park contained 27 glaciers that totaled
about 5330 acres at that time.

Since the mid-19th century, glaciers in Glacier National Park have shrunk
drastically. Retreat rates were slow from the mid-19th century until about 1920.
However, from 1920 to the mid-1940's, above-average summer temperatures and
below-average annual precipitation in the Glacier National Park region caused the
glaciers to retreat rapidily; many disappearred altogether. After the mid-1940's, the
overall retreat rates slowed. A study by the U.S. Geological Survey in 1979
determined that 17 of the 27 glaciers formerly present in the Mt. Jackson area during
the mid-19th century no longer existed. The remaining glaciers covered only about
1830 acres.

Today, only about 50 small glaciers remain in Glacier National Park. These
glaciers range in size from just a few acres to the Blackfoot Glacier (fig. 3), the largest
in the park with an area of about 430 acres in 1979. Other sizeable glaciers in the park
include the Harrison (370 acres), Rainbow (260 acres), Sperry (250 acres), Jackson
(250 acres), and Grinnell (225 acres).

ICE AGES
Ice ages have occurred throughout the history of the earth. Geological evidence
suggests that the first ice age may have occurred more than 2 billion years ago. These
past ice ages may have lasted 20 to 50 million years. The most recent ice age (which
really hasn't ended) began several million years ago
, and as many as 17 major
glaciations have occurred during the last 2 million years.
These major glaciations
were separated by periods of warmer climatic conditions and reduced ice cover.
During the maximum extent of the last major glaciation, about 20,000 years ago, large
ice sheets covered much of North America, Europe, and Siberia. In addition, the
Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets were thicker and more extensive than today.
Altogether, glaciers covered about 30 percent of the world's land surface at that time
compared to the 10 percent they cover today.

Many processes have been proposed to explain the cause of ice ages. These
processes include continental drift, mountain building, volcanic activity, changes in the
sun's output, and changes in oceanic or atmospheric circulation. Currently, many
scientists favor the Milankovitch theory, named for a Yugoslavian mathematician. This
theory proposes that climate change is caused by changes in the geometrical
relationship between the Earth and the Sun, including variations in the tilt of the
Earth's axis and ellipticity of the Earth's orbit.


At the present time, we live in a period of moderate climatic conditions, when large
ice sheets cover only Antarctica and Greenland. Evidence suggests that these periods
of moderate climatic conditions represent only about 10 percent of the last 2 million
years. During this time, interglacial stages have lasted only about 10,000 years each.
Our present interglacial stage started more than 10,000 years ago and, hence, could
end soon.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #241 on: July 11, 2017, 12:27:58 PM »
I think you missed AieaHound's point.  He doesn't want data and facts.  He just wants pretty pictures so he can draw whatever conclusions support his environmental whacko beliefs independent of the truth.   :wacko:

I bet he won't read a single word you posted beneath the picture.

 :geekdanc:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #242 on: July 12, 2017, 09:15:34 AM »
A summary article re the "Adjustments" article I posted above, which includes a chart that shows just when and in what direction the "adjustments" were made in order to conclude that the planet is "warming"... without the "adjustments" to the actual raw dats (i.e. actual temperatures as recorded by thermometers) there wouldn't be much, if anything at all, to "report" as "devastating climate change".

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/07/the_global_warming_fraud_explained_in_one_simple_chart.html

The global warming fraud explained in one simple chart

The global warming fraud is based entirely on the practice of "adjusting" data.  Michael Mann's infamous hockey stick graph was "adjusted" to "hide the decline," most notably.  But every prediction of catastrophe, every "hottest year ever" story, depends on adjusting the actual data of surface temperatures.



The blue bars show where the raw temperature data has been adjusted downwards to make it cooler; the red bars show where the raw temperature data has been adjusted upwards to make it warmer.

Note how most of the downward adjustments take place in the early twentieth century and most of the upward take place in the late twentieth century. [Conclusion: It was "cooler" then, it is "warmer" now...]

rklapp

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #243 on: July 12, 2017, 09:49:51 AM »
This does not depict raw temperature data. The referenced study has the actual data.

https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/ef-gast-data-research-report-062717.pdf
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

drck1000

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #244 on: July 12, 2017, 10:21:42 AM »
All I know is that last summer was one of the hottest and most humid that I recall. . . ever.  Then winter was cooler than I remember.

It's getting hotter and hotter as we approach August.  Should've gotten a free Slurpee or ten yesterday.   ;D

Inspector

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #245 on: July 12, 2017, 10:24:55 AM »
All I know is that last summer was one of the hottest and most humid that I recall. . . ever.  Then winter was cooler than I remember.

It's getting hotter and hotter as we approach August.  Should've gotten a free Slurpee or ten yesterday.   ;D
Should've installed air conditioning in my house last year. Or I can just take a bath in ten slurpees.  :P :P :P
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #246 on: July 12, 2017, 10:33:08 AM »
Should've installed air conditioning in my house last year. Or I can just take a bath in ten slurpees.  :P :P :P
The AC in my bedroom busted fall of 2016.  I should have blamed global warming. . .

The new AC is much larger and even the low settings cool the room really well!  Thinking of pricing out a Fujitsu or Mitsubishi for the living room and kitchen.  Anyone have hook ups, let me know.   ;D

While ten slurpees sounds great, my conscious is yelling "DIABETES!!!".  I've been dieting the past month or so.  With about 4 lbs to go before target, the slurpees would have hurt.   :(

rklapp

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #247 on: July 12, 2017, 10:39:52 AM »
My house in EB averages 84 degrees so I run the AC at that temp. Below that than the AC runs constantly and is very expensive. My condo in Makakilo averaged 78 degrees but grew tired of driving up the hill.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

robtmc

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #248 on: July 12, 2017, 11:39:57 AM »
I bet he won't read a single word you posted beneath the picture.
That is fine, I stopped reading anything he posts a long time ago after he outed himself.

Inspector

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #249 on: July 12, 2017, 12:21:21 PM »
Thinking of pricing out a Fujitsu or Mitsubishi for the living room and kitchen.  Anyone have hook ups, let me know.   ;D

While ten slurpees sounds great, my conscious is yelling "DIABETES!!!".  I've been dieting the past month or so.  With about 4 lbs to go before target, the slurpees would have hurt.   :(
If you get hooked up with a good contractor, let me know.   :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:

Good luck with your diet goals. It's tough. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

aieahound

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #250 on: July 12, 2017, 03:59:46 PM »
That is fine, I stopped reading anything he posts a long time ago after he outed himself.
Read as
I don't believe anything unless it agrees with me.  :D
Or maybe I don't read anything that doesn't agree with me.

Somethingist !

I'm not saying man-made change.
Although anyone who has been to LA or Beijing or has seen the forests shrink knows we are inarguably f-ing this planet up.
Don't need a study to tell us that. Just a head in the sand to tell us we're not.

Rob,
Thanks for agreeing the Glaciers are shrinking and indicate a period of warming.
Since the mid 19th Century the Glaciers at the park have shrunk drastically. ( per the story I quickly glanced at.)

And outed as what ?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:08:10 PM by aieahound »

punaperson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #251 on: July 12, 2017, 04:41:29 PM »
I think you missed AieaHound's point.  He doesn't want data and facts.  He just wants pretty pictures so he can draw whatever conclusions support his environmental whacko beliefs independent of the truth.   :wacko:

I bet he won't read a single word you posted beneath the picture.

 :geekdanc:
Damn... I wanted to give him the benefit the doubt... but turns out you were right. Oh well... now I know.

punaperson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #252 on: July 12, 2017, 04:48:56 PM »
Thanks for agreeing the Glaciers are shrinking and indicate a period of warming.
Since the mid 19th Century the Glaciers at the park have shrunk drastically. ( per the story I quickly glanced at.)
The whole point was: What about all the other times the glaciers have totally disappeared? You can't post any pictures of those "changes"/warming/cooling because there were no cameras (and no humans). Including the fact that almost all the times the glaciers disappeared no humans even existed. Did prehistoric rodents cause that warming? Or are you only (now) claiming that there is warming (to be followed by cooling, again) but that there is no human element involved? If so, what is your point? If there is no anthropogenic factor, then there is absolutely nothing that humans could do to change the warming (similar to the dozens of times it has happened on both a major scale, and probably hundreds or thousands of times on a minor scale ("Little Ice Age", "Medieval Warming Period", etc.). What's your point?

rklapp

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #253 on: July 12, 2017, 07:11:20 PM »
And outed as what ?
Perhaps they are accusing you of having sex with glaciers?
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

punaperson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #254 on: July 12, 2017, 07:46:02 PM »
Perhaps they are accusing you of having sex with glaciers?
Probably. This forum is well-known to be rife with glaciophiliaphobes...

aieahound

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #255 on: July 12, 2017, 09:15:53 PM »
The whole point was: What about all the other times the glaciers have totally disappeared? You can't post any pictures of those "changes"/warming/cooling because there were no cameras (and no humans). Including the fact that almost all the times the glaciers disappeared no humans even existed. Did prehistoric rodents cause that warming? Or are you only (now) claiming that there is warming (to be followed by cooling, again) but that there is no human element involved? If so, what is your point? If there is no anthropogenic factor, then there is absolutely nothing that humans could do to change the warming (similar to the dozens of times it has happened on both a major scale, and probably hundreds or thousands of times on a minor scale ("Little Ice Age", "Medieval Warming Period", etc.). What's your point?

That's exactly my point.
We are in a warming period. Looks like a pretty big one by all accounts.
Period.
Man-made or not makes no difference.
It's a ridiculous discussion from both points of view.
Heck, Death Valley was once under water if I'm not mistaken. Sea fossils all over dry areas around the world.

And you take what you want out of the article and I take what I want and the ridiculous discussion continues.
(Did you read the one sentence I quoted?)

Can we stop it by stopping cutting down all the trees and burning all the fossil fuels. Probably not.
The ship has set sail.
Each solution seems as harmful as the cause being blamed.

What's the point of arguing against human caused climate change ?
That we can burn every drop and Rock of fossil fuel and it won't make any difference ?
That we can cut down every tree and it won't make a difference so let's just go ahead ?

Now discussion about are we F-ing the Earth up ?
No question.

Even Teddy Roosevelt, great believer of 2A that he was, was a conservationist.

Perhaps they are accusing you of having sex with glaciers?
I only did it once.  :D

I'm still curious what I got outed as.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 09:32:41 PM by aieahound »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #256 on: July 12, 2017, 09:30:09 PM »

Perhaps they are accusing you of having sex with glaciers?

I only did it once.  :D

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #257 on: July 12, 2017, 09:33:29 PM »
 :rofl:  :rofl: :rofl:

rklapp

Re: Ah the paid climate change/polution denying members are at it again
« Reply #258 on: July 13, 2017, 12:01:51 AM »
Can we stop it by stopping cutting down all the trees and burning all the fossil fuels. Probably not.
The ship has set sail.
Each solution seems as harmful as the cause being blamed.
What's the point of arguing against human caused climate change ?
That we can burn every drop and Rock of fossil fuel and it won't make any difference ?
That we can cut down every tree and it won't make a difference so let's just go ahead ?
Now discussion about are we F-ing the Earth up ?
No question.
Even Teddy Roosevelt, great believer of 2A that he was, was a conservationist.
I only did it once.  :D
I'm still curious what I got outed as.
Is the Earth warming? Yes
Is the warming speeding up? Maybe
Do we need to shut down all of the coal power plants? Probably but not because they are directly killing the Earth.
Coal is dead and it's never coming back to where it was before. We should be more worried about the Kohl's jobs at the shopping malls. (blatant euphemism)
Coal is an obsolete technology. Even if coal jobs return, they will still be outpaced by solar jobs.
Eventually, petroleum jobs will also be obsolete. The Alaskan TAPS pumps a third of the oil as it did in the 80s because it's running out. I doubt there's another large reserve waiting to be discovered. The current oil boom is thanks to fraking technology and horizontal drilling, not through obsolete oil wells. Sure the fraking is causing massive earthquakes but no one cares about Oklahoma anyways.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Inspector

SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!