Road rage shooting in Aiea (Read 23478 times)

RSN172

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 08:02:58 AM »
Worked at the shooter's house twice more than 20 years ago. 
Happily living in Puna

changemyoil66

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2017, 09:07:26 AM »
This is going to be an interesting case to keep track of.  Was it self defense or not and how will it affect Hawaii's gun laws either way.  I could see a self defense scenario.  Maybe they got into an accident so stopped on the road and words are exchanged.  Pahio (dead guy) false cracks Freeman (shooter).  Freeman fearing for his life retrieves a gun and shoots.  Traumatized by the incident, he runs away.  Claims self defense.

The news article says the victim was a nice guy while shooter was a bad guy.  According to the court records the victim had some run ins with drugs, family abuse, assault, and harassment too.  Both of them sound like idiots.
Of course every victim is a nice guy who would never harm anyone...

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punaperson

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 10:02:22 AM »
Of course every victim is a nice guy who would never harm anyone...
See: Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc.

dogman

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2017, 10:19:16 AM »
Worked at the shooter's house twice more than 20 years ago.
Did he have the drawbridge?

RSN172

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2017, 12:22:01 PM »
Yes.  He showed me his hidden garage below the garage you could see from the street. That bridge opened and closed fast.
Happily living in Puna

whynow?

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2017, 03:21:11 PM »
IDK, to me for the murder charge this is not clear cut.  What irritates me is posters at SA saying how come no more fair fights anymore.   This 72 y.o. guy against this 31 y.o. guy who looks good sized.   Not bringing into account that the old guy was probably a prick and menace.  How about saying this 69 y.o. 95 lb. lady fighting this 230 lb. 28 y.o.   If she used a pistol and shot the guy, why didn't she just duke it out with the assailant?  Come on.  In this modern world there is no such thing as a fair fight and everyone seeks an advantage over their attacked or opponent.   If a guy with a knife attacks LE do we say that the offcer should've holstered his pistol and fought the guy with a knife too.   
If I was at home and someone rushed me with no visible weapon in sight, given the chance and time I would use my pisto/shotgun to stop the threat.   If not I would use whatever 2X4, knife, broom,  rake or whatever.  Other than saying we need more preventative gun confiscation from people possible of committing a crime,  I say this incident should at the least bring up legalizing Tasers/batons even those pepper spray pistols that were discussed earlier as being a firearm.  My opinions.
 
That being said, the fact that this old guy had a criminal history and possessing a concealed (in the vehicle) is another story and looks clear cut to me.   Condolences to the children and family of the deceased.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2017, 03:39:07 PM »
Sounds like manslaughter charges might be in order.

RSN172

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2017, 03:57:38 PM »
No such thing as a fair fight outside of sporting events.  Even nations don't fight "fair."  ISIS does not have aircraft, does that stop the US from using airpower?  I believe if you are going to fight, use anything at your disposal to win, or no fight at all.  That is why I will only fight if my life or that whom I care about is threatened.  If someone cuts me off in traffic I don't go leaning on my horn.  It already happened and nothing I can do will undo it.  Anything I do from that point to let the other driver know my displeasure will only make things worse. I want to go home and sleep in my own bed, not the bed in a hospital or jail. 
Cool head main thing, as the old folks would say when I was growing up.
Happily living in Puna

Kuleana

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2017, 07:07:34 PM »
No such thing as a fair fight outside of sporting events.  Even nations don't fight "fair."  ISIS does not have aircraft, does that stop the US from using airpower?  I believe if you are going to fight, use anything at your disposal to win, or no fight at all.  That is why I will only fight if my life or that whom I care about is threatened.  If someone cuts me off in traffic I don't go leaning on my horn.  It already happened and nothing I can do will undo it.  Anything I do from that point to let the other driver know my displeasure will only make things worse. I want to go home and sleep in my own bed, not the bed in a hospital or jail. 
Cool head main thing, as the old folks would say when I was growing up.

Well said.

With respect to the today's local laws that govern the appropriate use of force in the realm of self-defense, we are only given the realistic options of run away (if you can), allow yourself to be assaulted and hope the police arrive in time to save you, or use force and hope the judge and jury deem your use of force as not too excessive.

Kuleana

HiCarry

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2017, 10:47:30 PM »
This is going to be an interesting case to keep track of.  Was it self defense or not and how will it affect Hawaii's gun laws either way.  I could see a self defense scenario.  Maybe they got into an accident so stopped on the road and words are exchanged.  Pahio (dead guy) false cracks Freeman (shooter).  Freeman fearing for his life retrieves a gun and shoots.  Traumatized by the incident, he runs away.  Claims self defense.

The news article says the victim was a nice guy while shooter was a bad guy.  According to the court records the victim had some run ins with drugs, family abuse, assault, and harassment too.  Both of them sound like idiots.

No legitimate self-defense claim if he was able to walk back to his car unmolested and then return to the incident site. He was clear of any threat of death or great bodily harm when he went back to the car. Murder in the second degree will be the charge but will probably get pled down to manslaughter.

If he spent time in Federal prison on federal charges, he's almost certainly a felon.

jaynick

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2017, 10:59:22 PM »
No legitimate self-defense claim if he was able to walk back to his car unmolested and then return to the incident site. He was clear of any threat of death or great bodily harm when he went back to the car. Murder in the second degree will be the charge but will probably get pled down to manslaughter.

If he spent time in Federal prison on federal charges, he's almost certainly a felon.
i thought he shot him from the drivers seat after getting punched? if he went back to the car for the gun then hes screwed.

ren

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2017, 09:05:51 AM »
i thought he shot him from the drivers seat after getting punched? if he went back to the car for the gun then hes screwed.

media is reporting all kinds of accounts.
morning radio is calling for more gun laws / bans... :grrr:
Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2017, 09:34:39 AM »
Better ban cars.  If my recent memory is correct, there have been several assaults by auto that resulted in death or serious injury in Hawaii.
Happily living in Puna

punaperson

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2017, 10:49:43 AM »
Better ban cars.  If my recent memory is correct, there have been several assaults by auto that resulted in death or serious injury in Hawaii.
Nice try, but I think you'd better re-read the Constitution(s): "A well-regulated massive fleet of civilian-owned automobiles, being necessary for the economic security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive automobiles, shall not be infringed." And, trust me, the courts take that one seriously.

Wave Twister

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2017, 07:34:35 AM »
Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.

A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.

drck1000

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2017, 07:47:14 AM »
Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.

A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
Have you seen the comments on the S/A articles?   :o

Seems like information being reported is still sketchy at best.  Yes, Freeman doesn't have a great history that would really help his case, though I am not sure how much is relevant legally.  That said, that Pahio got out of the car and hit Freeman appears to confirmed by many witnesses and that in itself, even if provoked, to me was a big part of what the result was.  Again, I am sure there were other things that happened that wasn't being reported, but those are my thoughts based on the information presented.

There are so many walking around with the "faka, what?!" and "I no sked" attitude and others who just may simply be looking for a confrontation.  I think in this case is was an explosive mix of polar opposites colliding. 

punaperson

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2017, 07:55:31 AM »
Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat.

First, I'm not "defending" this person, just speculating on your questions in general. Either the people on his street didn't call law enforcement, or the times they did call the cops concluded he had broken no laws. Or he was arrested and not charged, or he was arrested, charged and not convicted, or he was arrested, charged, convicted and then back on the street. There isn't a life sentence, yet, for being an asshole. Though based on the reported criminal history of this guy it's difficult to see why he wasn't removed from the public for a much longer term.

How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.

Even the most ruthless hardcore lifetime criminal could find himself in a legitimate self-defense lethal force situation (I'm not insinuating that that is the case here, as I have no idea what specifically happened). He could have a legitimate self-defense claim and still be charged with all the other firearms violations. Note: In California you cannot carry without a permit, but an exception exists for "immediate imminent danger" (or some such phrase), meaning that you cannot carry unless and until you are in immediate danger of imminent serious bodily injury or death, THEN you can use magic to make your firearm appear at your previously-illegal-to-carry location. Gotta love the people who write these laws (especially when they then pass laws to exempt themselves from the laws, as the California legislators did).

zippz

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2017, 09:55:46 PM »
From the witness reports on the news, sounds like he has a weak self defense case going.  If it is ruled self defense and he is acquitted of murder/manslaughter, I wonder if they will still press the firearms violations especially the place to keep.  Also here we go:

...We took the documents to University of Hawaii law professor Ken Lawson, who is not connected to the case.

“He may come out with some magic out of his hat, but from what we know right now, no, it’s not self defense,” Lawson said. “The law would rather see you run than resort to deadly force, so if you can get away, the law says you’ve got to go before you can use deadly force.”
http://khon2.com/2017/03/07/witnesses-claim-victim-yelled-at-punched-suspect-prior-to-shooting/


They may have a point in this case, it would have been better to drive off if possible in this case.

ren

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2017, 10:09:44 PM »
Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.

A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.

that doesn't make sense at all - if he hated them why did he rent to them?
I don't agree with the suspect's action at all but it seems that everyone here has a torch ready to set him on fire.
Deeds Not Words

whynow?

Re: Road rage shooting in Aiea
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2017, 10:31:49 PM »
Wow, everyone on "his" street says he was a menace and a threat. How can anyone argue self defense in this case...he was a prior felon carrying a weapon on his person.

A past tenant of his says he hates all Polynesians - I'm sure he'll have LOTS of fun locked up with the USO boys.
Was told by a friend born, raised and still living in Aiea that he remembers Freeman being married to a Polynesian at one time.   What gets me is how this old bad boy got hired by HFD and retired as a battalion chief.