Bill Nye the Political Science Guy! (Read 34909 times)

omnigun

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2017, 05:09:33 PM »
wait 80%?
i thought it was a "proven fact"?
or as your TV friend says "settled science"?

Its settled we know we are at fault, we know the climate is changing but we don't know exactly how.  That doesn't mean its a false fact....We don't exactly know the entire reason/how the big bang happened but we are 95% sure it did.  Does this mean with your definitions its false?

See what happens when you have no facts?  You use words like "probably" and "around". 

That's why Climate Change is a THEORY, and NOT a fact-based, provable LAW.  Laws, like gravity -- which you like to bring up -- are indisputable, proven and predictable.  Climate change is not any of these.  The margin of error so far on all these climate related disasters is 100%.  Why is the latest one any better?

Sorry, dude.  Your religion might be based on some percentage of actual truth, but so are other religions.  I've studied it.  Stories in the Bible actually did happen.  There are plenty of other, independent writings which corroborate the basic facts of Jesus actually living and visiting the places in the Bible. The census that took Mary & Joseph to Bethlehem was documented.  The parting of the Red Sea was also recorded -- not as a religious story of God parting the waters, but of the Reed Sea, where it was mostly muddy swampland.  The chariots of Egypt would have gotten bogged down there, and the winds blowing would have dried the land enough for the freed slaves to "assist" God in smiting the soldiers, now that the slaves were greater in number and without chariots to fight against.  All recorded as history.

So, you keep believing, but don't act like your beliefs are better than any others' until you can prove them.

Yeah no all religions are basically fake.  Sure some of the coincidence stores might be sorta rooted in truth but that ain't no sign of a god.  Its simple coincidence.  Random events that people interpret it as something greater.  Then they embellish said stories as some sort of proof of their god.  Jesus was probably a real person so what?  Anyone can start a cult/religion and make themselves one of the main people in it.  Look at cult leaders saying they are the reborn jesus.  Sure Mary cheated on Joseph had a kid, said the kid was "gods" son and poor Joseph believed it.  Hell this story happens all the time nowdays.  But you don't people saying god made this baby anymore cause its crazy.  The red sea, wow it got muddy/dried up....must be proof of god.  When there are random storms that kill enemy troops.  Must be god, no other reason could be plausible right?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 06:00:58 PM by omnigun »

Inspector

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2017, 05:17:50 PM »
That position seems extreme, I question whether or not you stated or recognize your own position correctly. You believe it is proven that humans cannot affect the climate enough to make a difference?
No, what I am saying is no scientist is willing to take an stance on how much humans affect the climate. That is because they really don't know. So much for an exact science. So since no one knows how much humans actually affect the climate it can be any where from let's say 0.1% up to let's take a stab at 50%. I get these numbers from various different papers I have read. It is all very vague. The one thing that I have read is a lot scientists agree on is that natural occurring pollution is much worse that man made pollution. Which is why I have not seen a number speculating higher than 50%. I mostly have seen between 2.5% and 10%. But even those numbers are only speculation.

Since there is no scientific data to support any premise that man is affecting the climate to any significant amount, and since the scientific community is not willing to take a stance and put a number on it, no one really knows. My premise is then since there is no scientific evidence to support a number, no one who believes in climate change can honestly argue that humans affect the climate in any significant way. Hell, the scientists couldn't even agree that the earth was cooling 30-40 years ago. They called it global cooling. Then they said the climate is warming. And called it global warming. Then when they saw a slight cooling trend again they called it climate change.

Maybe someday we will know more with more studying over the next few hundred years.

I hope I made my position clearer.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:23:46 PM by Inspector »
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

macsak

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2017, 05:20:24 PM »

PeaShooter

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2017, 05:29:24 PM »
Yeah that's a totally reasonable position to take. Probably the correct, unbiased position.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2017, 07:41:14 PM »
That position seems extreme, I question whether or not you stated or recognize your own position correctly. You believe it is proven that humans cannot affect the climate enough to make a difference?

Were you addressing a particular comment/person?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2017, 07:46:38 PM »
Haha! However I would suggest not to underestimate the juju-man, his explanation is not really that much worse, mostly just different terminology and a shallower understanding. Remember, "modern" medicine used to perform lobotomies and suck blood out with leeches not long ago. "Current" medicine in my opinion is just as bad with our acceptance of the ridiculous idea of "mental illness". Or the way we "treat" Alzheimer's thinking its due to chemical imbalances in brain fluids (I suspect it's a much more fundamental problem such as the loss/death of brain cells with age, or perhaps a limitation with animal intelligence itself i.e. running out of hard drive space).

Another disturbing analogy -- the current "judicial" system versus the middle ages "church" system. If you replace the terminology, priests with judges, banishment/stoning with imprisonment/injection, religious law with fuzzy corrupt politician law....is it really so different?

How many religions have a Constitution, Bill of Rights, and limits on the church's / leader's powers?  Your comparison could just as easily be applied to any student government body that follows Roberts Rules of Order and democratically votes on decisions.  I fail to see the analogy when it comes to medicine and science.  It's nice to know symptoms and things that might cure them, but without the knowledge of why diseases and infections happen, the cure may be more dangerous than the disease.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2017, 08:35:36 PM »
Its settled we know we are at fault, we know the climate is changing but we don't know exactly how.  That doesn't mean its a false fact...
But, it could mean you are a borderline hysteric.

Just how old are you?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2017, 08:38:11 PM »
But, it could mean you are a borderline hysteric.

Just how old are you?

Borderline?  Have you not been following the Climate Change threads?   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2017, 08:44:46 PM »
Its settled we know we are at fault, we know the climate is changing but we don't know exactly how.  That doesn't mean its a false fact....We don't exactly know the entire reason/how the big bang happened but we are 95% sure it did.  Does this mean with your definitions its false?

Yeah no all religions are basically fake.  Sure some of the coincidence stores might be sorta rooted in truth but that ain't no sign of a god.  Its simple coincidence.  Random events that people interpret it as something greater.  Then they embellish said stories as some sort of proof of their god.  Jesus was probably a real person so what?  Anyone can start a cult/religion and make themselves one of the main people in it.  Look at cult leaders saying they are the reborn jesus.  Sure Mary cheated on Joseph had a kid, said the kid was "gods" son and poor Joseph believed it.  Hell this story happens all the time nowdays.  But you don't people saying god made this baby anymore cause its crazy.  The red sea, wow it got muddy/dried up....must be proof of god.  When there are random storms that kill enemy troops.  Must be god, no other reason could be plausible right?

Why are you so against the teachings of religions?  I'm not arguing for the belief aspect. I'm making a parallel argument that goes along with your assertion.  You said a certain percentage of Climate Change is based on facts.  I'm saying Christianity is also base in some part on facts.  Both require some degree of faith to fill in the unknown parts, true? 

You don't have to believe in the things the Bible teaches, but you DO have to acknowledge it's not based 100% on fiction and imagination.  It has basis in fact.  To think science has some sort of corner on the market when it comes to facts is ridiculous.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2017, 08:51:46 PM »
Borderline?  Have you not been following the Climate Change threads?   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

and his threads where he starts to "prove" religion isn't real?
and his threads where he wants to sterilize/euthanize people who he sees as inferior?

omnigun

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2017, 09:06:56 PM »
But, it could mean you are a borderline hysteric.

Just how old are you?

No idea how hysteric fits
Hysteric - hysteria, wildness, feverishness, irrationality, frenzy, loss of control, delirium, derangement, mania

How old do you think i am?

omnigun

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2017, 09:09:33 PM »
Why are you so against the teachings of religions?  I'm not arguing for the belief aspect. I'm making a parallel argument that goes along with your assertion.  You said a certain percentage of Climate Change is based on facts.  I'm saying Christianity is also base in some part on facts.  Both require some degree of faith to fill in the unknown parts, true? 

You don't have to believe in the things the Bible teaches, but you DO have to acknowledge it's not based 100% on fiction and imagination.  It has basis in fact.  To think science has some sort of corner on the market when it comes to facts is ridiculous.

I'm against you saying religion is logical when its not, then 5 seconds later calling me out on climate change which has alot more proof behind it.  I told you what its based on.  Some of the basic events probably happened.  The people lived.  They gave birth,  some natural disasters happened etc.  But that doesn't prove anything that god exists. After the some realish events a dude made a cult for people to follow on. Doesn't even prove that god exists a little bit.  No one can prove god till he comes and shows himself or you meet him after death.   There is no real other method.  Hence I will either meet him or not after I die.  Honestly I hope he does exist, I try to live life as if he does (morally).
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 09:19:50 PM by omnigun »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
I'm against you saying religion is logical when its not, then 5 seconds later calling me out on climate change which has alot more proof behind it.  I told you what its based on.  Some realish events that a dude made a cult for people to follow on. Doesn't even prove that god exists a little bit.

It's all a matter of degree, and which of these you put your faith in.

I don't put my faith in a government pushing a "sky is falling" Climate Change "theory" while having a not-so-great track record, failed predictions, and a "do as I say, not a I do" attitude toward a "crisis."

For that, you call me a "denier" and too stupid to believe in "science."

Christianity as an institution has benefits that include moral teachings, faith in a higher power beyond themselves (called humility), and provides comfort in times of grief and stress.  Those are all positive things.

For that, you call those who believe in God ignorant.

You're not really good at this salesmanship thing, are you?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2017, 09:24:41 PM »
It's all a matter of degree, and which of these you put your faith in.

I don't put my faith in a government pushing a "sky is falling" Climate Change "theory" while having a not-so-great track record, failed predictions, and a "do as I say, not a I do" attitude toward a "crisis."

For that, you call me a "denier" and too stupid to believe in "science."

Christianity as an institution has benefits that include moral teachings, faith in a higher power beyond themselves (called humility), and provides comfort in times of grief and stress.  Those are all positive things.

For that, you call those who believe in God ignorant.

You're not really good at this salesmanship thing, are you?

I elaborating a bit in my edit.  The teaching of morality is the main reason why religion exists to this day.   It does indeed serve a purpose in that sense I'm not denying that.  But we don't need it anymore in the age of science we can be taught to be better humans for the sake of humanity.  Hopefully we have evolved to that point. Also fyi I am by no means signalling out Christianity.  Honestly its one of the better religions out there.
There is a reason why religion and science cant really be argued at once.  They are polar opposites.  One is rooted in blind belief.  One is rooted in fact.  Climate change has a real root in real science, while not 100% proven I would dare to say its around 80% there.  Much like many things in this universe that we don't fully understand it 100%.  But to deny something with a lot of evidence because it isn't perfect is foolish. You would be denying how the universe works.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2017, 09:26:39 PM »
Nye is as big a fake and hack as algore.  He apparently never had a job as an engineer. 

Anyone that has gone to an engineering school knows the mech engineering majors (ME) are generally the dumbest.

Figures he would try a scam like this, algore likely is advising him how to play it.

He apparently did have a job as an engineer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye

The exchange was interesting. Tucker was trying to at least pretend to be objective but he seemed to be pushing a point rather than challenging Nye. I don't know why Nye has become a face for man influenced climate change, maybe it is because he is more charismatic than most scientists (not generally known to be so), but either way he has. At one point Tucker did get out a specific question about what weather would be like had man not been an influence and Nye answered it giving a year as a time frame. Tucker was either too busy interrupting to hear the answer or just didn't catch it because he kept pushing the same line of questions. When Nye answered the second time then well the argument sort of lost steam. Neither side had a very impressive performance. 

macsak

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »
while not 100% proven I would dare to say its around 80% there.

"proven fact"?

macsak

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2017, 09:38:00 PM »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2017, 09:45:30 PM »
I elaborating a bit in my edit.  The teaching of morality is the main reason why religion exists to this day.   It does indeed serve a purpose in that sense I'm not denying that.  But we don't need it anymore in the age of science we can be taught to be better humans for the sake of humanity. Hopefully we have evolved to that point. Also fyi I am by no means signalling out Christianity.  Honestly its one of the better religions out there.
There is a reason why religion and science cant really be argued at once.  They are polar opposites.  One is rooted in blind belief.  One is rooted in fact.  Climate change has a real root in real science, while not 100% proven I would dare to say its around 80% there.  Much like many things in this universe that we don't fully understand it 100%.  But to deny something with a lot of evidence because it isn't perfect is foolish. You would be denying how the universe works.

I guess you've never studied the SCIENCE of Human Behavior. 

So many variables, but to name a few:

1.  No matter how one is raised, there is no way to predict how that individual will behave toward society.  The worst cases are labeled sociopaths.  They aren't always serial killers.  Sometimes they become First Lady, US Senator, Secretary of State, and runner-up for President! 
2.  Self-interest can not be untaught.  People will choose what's in their own self interest if there is an attitude of "everyone else would do the same thing."
3.  Not all environments or parents are created equal.  Therefore, you can't apply science to raising kids unless you intend to hand over all newborns for government indoctrination and education.
4.  Punishment only stops repeated bad behavior (if it works).  Instilling a set of personal values works much better.  Rather than a set of does and don'ts, it's better to have a broad set of guidelines to base decisions on.  Love thy neighbor, "What would Jesus Do?" and the 10 Commandments are all meant to offer guidance, not legal rules that must be obeyed.
5.  "Integrity" is doing what's right even when you think no one is watching.  Having a belief that everything you do affects your soul is a way of instilling a desire to always do good.  Doing bad when you know you can get away with it is not the objective of creating good members of society.

As far as Science and Religion being polar opposites, that really shows your immaturity and inexperience.  Scientist rarely create basic truths. They discover them.  That means gravity, life, properties of water, and so on all existed before scientists started categorizing, analyzing, dissecting, and recording everything.  Why is it a polar opposite" viewpoint if a scientist (or just one at heart) also believes these miracles of nature were part of a preordained plan, which we haven't discovered yet? 

We've created so many technological "miracles" in the last century, it's difficult for anyone born after 1980 to imagine a world were these things didn't exist.  Just because man took the steps to discover and apply his knowledge to manufacture these things in no way precludes one from having a belief that there is a reason for them to exist as they do in the first place.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2017, 09:51:37 PM »
Honestly I hope he does exist, I try to live life as if he does (morally).

wow
just wow

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bill Nye the Political Science Guy!
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2017, 09:54:45 PM »
wow
just wow


Shhhhh. Don't tell the other agnostics! 

I think we're converting him!  :)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw