Hawaii turns Republican ! (Read 16157 times)

Magnum IT

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2017, 08:34:00 PM »
I've been done with Republicans since GWB.  Libertarian all the way! 

Rocky

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2017, 12:15:15 PM »
PP
1. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
I STILL  know of no "policy positions" ever  put forth on this idea and still cannot find any.  If there is such policy position by the GOP, please enlighten me otherwise your ridiculing  me for not finding such policy is equal to me not finding policy on how "the Martians must corroborate with the Russians to sway US elections.

2. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support individuals at end-of-life to have the legal ability to make any choices they wish about terminating their life in the manner and time they might choose?
As I said,  "I will get back to you on as I believe it may have been previously discussed" and here is what I' know or have found out.
I am assuming by : "end-of-life " you are relating to Health Bill SB 1129 SD2 which establishes a medical aid in dying act that establishes  a REGULATORY process under which an ADULT resident of the state with a medically confirmed terminal disease may obtain a PRESCRIPTION for medication to be SELF-ADMINISTERED to end the patient's life.
(First of all I find the term "medication " ludicrous as a medication is described as "a drug used to treat an illness".)

    Some of the most recent arguments were as follows.
Death certificate accuracy:                           
What if patient dies from a Heart attack after  SELF-ADMINISTERING the prescription?
Is this suicide and if so, does this mean all insurance pay outs are null and void ?

SELF-ADMINISTRATION was not defined.
What if patient is unable to SELF-ADMINISTER ?   Do they no longer have the right to "end of life?
   
The projection of death did not consider the effects of additional or continued medication.  i:e; You'll die in 6 months IF you don't do your meds.
   
This bill also SUGGESTED  that the patient be "counseled" to have someone present and not to ingest the lethal medication in a public place, but was not "required" on the bill
   What if I as a patient decide to "check out" and end my life alone via self administered  prescription  at Sunset Beach while watching my last gorgeous sunset ?   
Who can confirm cause of death ?
What about the vacationing family from Kansas who goes for    that early sunrise walk on the beach and their 5 year old trips over my dead body and is traumatized ?

There is no specification on which medication or in what doses would aid someone in dying and how this would happen safely.
   What doses and administration (pill, injection, etc..) or do we just give everybody the same big o'le hand full of Phenobarbital and hope for the best ?
   What if they don't die for whatever reason and end up in worse shape (coma/HOSPITALIZED for the last 6 months)

3. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support consenting adults to legally engage in mutually agreed upon arrangements of any sort?
Again, this so vague, my mind is still in a 4th dimension.

Maybe you meant
What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support consenting adults to engage in mutually agreed upon legal arrangements of any sort?
Please be more specific or make reference

You're finally mentioning 2a rights is refreshing but you single out these previous Republican presidents on 2a only, not any of your questions to me.
My mentioning of the ATF was in more in regards to  it's affect on pakalolo and alcohol jointly (npi) and respectfully

    As for the rest of your comments regarding the Republican Party, you do not mention the affect the Democrats have had especially in the degradation of the State of Hawaii
I don't think there ever has been or will there ever be a political party that I can TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING the represent, I'm just going for what I see is the best option and how to help it if I can.
.
   As I have said, I'm in to make change ( which I already have) INCLUDING change  in the Republican Party not a change in you personally.
I was just saying if you don't like something,  change it but  I can see this being the same as me trying to convince a anti-gun leftist how legal firearm possession decreases crime.

“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2017, 12:40:46 PM »
PP
1. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
I STILL  know of no "policy positions" ever  put forth on this idea and still cannot find any.  If there is such policy position by the GOP, please enlighten me otherwise your ridiculing  me for not finding such policy is equal to me not finding policy on how "the Martians must corroborate with the Russians to sway US elections.

2. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support individuals at end-of-life to have the legal ability to make any choices they wish about terminating their life in the manner and time they might choose?
As I said,  "I will get back to you on as I believe it may have been previously discussed" and here is what I' know or have found out.
I am assuming by : "end-of-life " you are relating to Health Bill SB 1129 SD2 which establishes a medical aid in dying act that establishes  a REGULATORY process under which an ADULT resident of the state with a medically confirmed terminal disease may obtain a PRESCRIPTION for medication to be SELF-ADMINISTERED to end the patient's life.
(First of all I find the term "medication " ludicrous as a medication is described as "a drug used to treat an illness".)

    Some of the most recent arguments were as follows.
Death certificate accuracy:                           
What if patient dies from a Heart attack after  SELF-ADMINISTERING the prescription?
Is this suicide and if so, does this mean all insurance pay outs are null and void ?

SELF-ADMINISTRATION was not defined.
What if patient is unable to SELF-ADMINISTER ?   Do they no longer have the right to "end of life?
   
The projection of death did not consider the effects of additional or continued medication.  i:e; You'll die in 6 months IF you don't do your meds.
   
This bill also SUGGESTED  that the patient be "counseled" to have someone present and not to ingest the lethal medication in a public place, but was not "required" on the bill
   What if I as a patient decide to "check out" and end my life alone via self administered  prescription  at Sunset Beach while watching my last gorgeous sunset ?   
Who can confirm cause of death ?
What about the vacationing family from Kansas who goes for    that early sunrise walk on the beach and their 5 year old trips over my dead body and is traumatized ?

There is no specification on which medication or in what doses would aid someone in dying and how this would happen safely.
   What doses and administration (pill, injection, etc..) or do we just give everybody the same big o'le hand full of Phenobarbital and hope for the best ?
   What if they don't die for whatever reason and end up in worse shape (coma/HOSPITALIZED for the last 6 months)

3. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support consenting adults to legally engage in mutually agreed upon arrangements of any sort?
Again, this so vague, my mind is still in a 4th dimension.

Maybe you meant
What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to support consenting adults to engage in mutually agreed upon legal arrangements of any sort?
Please be more specific or make reference

You're finally mentioning 2a rights is refreshing but you single out these previous Republican presidents on 2a only, not any of your questions to me.
My mentioning of the ATF was in more in regards to  it's affect on pakalolo and alcohol jointly (npi) and respectfully

    As for the rest of your comments regarding the Republican Party, you do not mention the affect the Democrats have had especially in the degradation of the State of Hawaii
I don't think there ever has been or will there ever be a political party that I can TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING the represent, I'm just going for what I see is the best option and how to help it if I can.
.
   As I have said, I'm in to make change ( which I already have) INCLUDING change  in the Republican Party not a change in you personally.
I was just saying if you don't like something,  change it but  I can see this being the same as me trying to convince a anti-gun leftist how legal firearm possession decreases crime.

Most life insurance policies, especially long term Whole Life policies, have a short suicide exemption period.  Some are 30 days -- some as long as a year.  The idea is like a firearm waiting period -- to prevent someone planning on suicide from benefiting from a newly issued policy.

No one can prevent suicide years after the policy was purchased.  Obviously if the suicide is long after purchase, there was no immediate risk of suicide nor intent to take unfair advantage of the insurance coverage.

We live in a country that allows a pregnant woman to make the decision to kill a living, soon-to-be person under the guise of "privacy", but you're arguing the notional details of an adult deciding to end a life they do not want any longer?  In the big picture, all life matters, but in certain cases, we allow for the termination of life based on someone's decision -- as they are going through one of the most difficult times in their lives.

Nothing controversial there!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2017, 01:17:31 PM »
PP
1. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
I STILL  know of no "policy positions" ever  put forth on this idea and still cannot find any.  If there is such policy position by the GOP, please enlighten me otherwise your ridiculing  me for not finding such policy is equal to me not finding policy on how "the Martians must corroborate with the Russians to sway US elections.
I don't have time to even begin to answer your "response"... which again avoids the actual questions by diversion, claimed ignorance, and/or straw man responses.

Briefly regarding the first issue, who the hell do you think do think created "The War on Drugs"? I know, you'll say you can't find anything out about that because that doesn't exist blah blah blah. It was REPUBLICAN Richard Nixon (he was a president of the United States and marshaled all the taxpayer dollars he could to arrest, prosecute, and imprison people for possessing a single cannabis cigarette, etc., all the while having a serious scotch and Seconal addiction... remember when I used the word "hypocrisy" earlier?).

Here's a quote from the REPUBLICAN PARTY PLATFORM (you've heard of that, right?): "Drug abuse and addiction ruin lives. There can be no debate about it. Every adult has a responsibility to teach children about the dangers of drugs - in terms of both physical harm and potential death, as well as lost opportunities for success.

To continue this progress, we must ensure that jail time is used as an effective deterrent to drug use and support the continued funding of grants to assist schools in drug testing." [Emphasis added]

There are literally dozens of quotes, found quickly with any search engine, from REPUBLICAN politicians supporting criminalization of every drug except alcohol. But you can't find any of those. Or you are going to create a "new" Republican party that will put all psychotropic substances on a level legal playing field, right? Good grief!

Rocky

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2017, 05:23:49 PM »
Most life insurance policies, especially long term Whole Life policies, have a short suicide exemption period.  Some are 30 days -- some as long as a year.  The idea is like a firearm waiting period -- to prevent someone planning on suicide from benefiting from a newly issued policy.

No one can prevent suicide years after the policy was purchased.  Obviously if the suicide is long after purchase, there was no immediate risk of suicide nor intent to take unfair advantage of the insurance coverage.

We live in a country that allows a pregnant woman to make the decision to kill a living, soon-to-be person under the guise of "privacy", but you're arguing the notional details of an adult deciding to end a life they do not want any longer?  In the big picture, all life matters, but in certain cases, we allow for the termination of life based on someone's decision -- as they are going through one of the most difficult times in their lives.

Nothing controversial there!
Agreed, policy's vary, I was merely repeating the information I received from someone who actually ATTENDED the SB1129 SD2 meeting.
"I" am not arguing anything nor have I stated a side on any of the subjects/questions given to me.
Like I said. I'm here for change.
 :shaka:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Rocky

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2017, 05:54:42 PM »
PP
1. What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
I STILL  know of no "policy positions" ever  put forth on this idea and still cannot find any.  If there is such policy position by the GOP, please enlighten me otherwise your ridiculing  me for not finding such policy is equal to me not finding policy on how "the Martians must corroborate with the Russians to sway US elections.
I don't have time to even begin to answer your "response"... which again avoids the actual questions by diversion, claimed ignorance, and/or straw man responses.
My response was not " diversion, claimed ignorance, and/or (a) straw man responses."
Possibly ignorance by the way of lack of knowledge, but knowledge which I requested of you which you have not provided. So I ask again, can you even prove there is such a policy ?      If not you're back to the Martians


Briefly regarding the first issue, who the hell do you think do think created "The War on Drugs"? I know, you'll say you can't find anything out about that because that doesn't exist blah blah blah. It was REPUBLICAN Richard Nixon (he was a president of the United States and marshaled all the taxpayer dollars he could to arrest, prosecute, and imprison people for possessing a single cannabis cigarette, etc., all the while having a serious scotch and Seconal addiction... remember when I used the word "hypocrisy" earlier?).
Again, you need a history lesson.
Marijuana had increased restrictions and labeling of cannabis as a poison began in many states from 1906 onward ( see FDA) , and outright prohibitions began in the 1920s. By the mid-1930s marijuana was regulated as a drug in every state, including 35 states that adopted the Uniform State Narcotic Drug Act.[1] The first national regulation was the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937.[2]


Here's a quote from the REPUBLICAN PARTY PLATFORM (you've heard of that, right?): "Drug abuse and addiction ruin lives. There can be no debate about it. Every adult has a responsibility to teach children about the dangers of drugs - in terms of both physical harm and potential death, as well as lost opportunities for success.
To continue this progress, we must ensure that jail time is used as an effective deterrent to drug use and support the continued funding of grants to assist schools in drug testing." [Emphasis added]
Are you talking Crack, cocaine, heroin and other opiods ?

"Majorities across most demographic groups say alcohol is more harmful than marijuana to a person’s health and to society. But roughly a third of Hispanics (32%), people 65 and older (31%) and Republicans (36%) say marijuana would be more harmful to society than alcohol, if it were as widely available."
The above figure would mean 64% of Republican's   say alcohol would be more harmful to society than marijuana
http://www.people-press.org/2014/04/02/section-2-views-of-marijuana-legalization-decriminalization-concerns/

There are literally dozens of quotes, found quickly with any search engine, from REPUBLICAN politicians supporting criminalization of every drug except alcohol. But you can't find any of those.
Your not looking .
Or you are going to create a "new" Republican party that will put all psychotropic substances on a level legal playing field, right? Good grief!
Really dude ?
I answered question #2 because it had substance and validity.
How about you show me policy's for your questions 1 & 2 and I'll try to help you out.
 :shaka:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2017, 06:04:43 PM »
Agreed, policy's vary, I was merely repeating the information I received from someone who actually ATTENDED the SB1129 SD2 meeting.
"I" am not arguing anything nor have I stated a side on any of the subjects/questions given to me.
Like I said. I'm here for change.
 :shaka:

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2017, 06:45:26 PM »

I answered question #2 because it had substance and validity.
How about you show me policy's for your questions 1 & 2 and I'll try to help you out.
1. You didn't answer question #2. You went from your oft repeated claims (and that's all they are, unsubstantiated claims in these circumstances) that Republicans "want to have LESS government control/involvement in your life" as a (false) statement of general principle, to, when challenged specifically on the end-of-life question to spinning completely irrelevant (to your general principle claim) claims about possible problems with life insurance!! Talk about off topic! Just admit it... it's plain as day: When it comes to end-of-life liberty and freedom the Republican party wants MORE government control/involvement in your life, the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claim, to the extant that they want to criminalize people for making their own choices about the end of their own life. But... I'm sure you won't admit that plain and simple fact. Just like most Democrats won't admit that they don't support Second Amendment-guaranteed rights even though they always say "I support the Second Amendment... but..."

2. You don't answer question #1 either, but again just give irrelevant historical data that doesn't in any way contradict the FACT that Republicans, including Nixon's infamous "War on Drugs" and subsequent Republican policies are both hypocritical (in that they have almost always failed to include "alcohol" as a "drug" and distinguish between "use" and "abuse", etc. etc. etc.) and clearly attempts to "have MORE government control/involvement in your life" by making people into criminals and prisoners for making personal choices that harm no one else. The Republicans want total control of individuals making certain choices. They want to deny law-abiding citizens the right to liberty and freedom over issues which are no business of the state at all.

Here are some quotes from some articles written by Republicans about their positions re "illicit substances" (and a few choice comments included as well):

Jail time and school drug testing deters drug use

Drug abuse and addiction ruin lives. [Uh huh. Just like "gun violence" and "gun crime" ruin lives and therefore we must disarm the civilian population, right? What about the people who "use" "illicit drugs"/guns but don't harm anyone else?] There can be no debate about it. Every adult has a responsibility to teach children about the dangers of drugs - in terms of both physical harm and potential death, as well as lost opportunities for success.
We must ensure that jail time is used as an effective deterrent to drug use and support the continued funding of grants to assist schools in drug testing.
Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 75 , Sep 1, 2004

Clinton surrendered Drug War; cry out for drug-free schools
The entire nation has suffered from the administration’s virtual surrender in the war against drugs, but children in poor communities have paid the highest price in the threat of addiction and the daily reality of violence. Drug kingpins have turned entire neighborhoods into wastelands and ruined uncounted lives with their poison. Not surprisingly, teen attitudes toward drug abuse have veered sharply away from disapproval. With abundant supplies in their deadly arsenal, drug traffickers are targeting younger children, as well as rural kids.
Still, there is no substitute for presidential leadership, whether internationally or here at home, where America’s families cry out for safe, drug-free schools. A Republican president will hear those cries and work with parents to protect children. We will bring accountability to anti-drug programs, promote those that work, and cease funding for those that waste resources.
Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention , Aug 12, 2000

Aggressively pursue drug kingpins; include death penalty
In a Republican administration the Department of Justice will require all federal prosecutors to aggressively pursue drug dealers, from the kingpins to the lackeys. We renew our support for capital punishment for drug traffickers who take innocent life.
Source: Republican Platform adopted at GOP National Convention , Aug 12, 2000


Marco Rubio on Drugs
While many of Marco Rubio’s drug stances sit with the rest of his party, he believes in a stricter world than most other Republicans. While many have criticized the minimum sentencing laws and wish to see first time offenders deferred to drug courts, Rubio believes the opposite, stating, “I personally believe that legalizing drugs would be a great mistake and that any reductions in sentences for drug crimes should be made with great care.” Rubio believes in maintaining stricter sentencing for all offenders, not just repeat or violent offenders.

Mitt Romney on Drugs
Drug policy is one issue that Mitt Romney has not spoken extensively about. However, his stance against marijuana legalization makes it seem that he would stand strongly against any leniency on drug issues. In 2008, Romney vowed to fight “tooth and nail” against marijuana legalization. For 2016, he seems to be taking a similar stance, stating “I oppose marijuana being used for recreational purposes and I believe the federal law should prohibit the recreational use of marijuana.” He has not provided a definitive stance on medicinal marijuana. When asked about it in May, he responded, “we’ve got enormous issues we face, but you want to talk about medical marijuana.” During his time as governor of Massachusetts, Romney vetoed a bill allowing pharmacies to provide individuals clean hypodermic needles without a prescription. The bill was intended to stop the spread of infectious diseases, buy Romney argued the program would have “unintended consequences” and encourage the use of heroin.
http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-drugs/

Republicans also call for stricter federal regulations over marijuana, amongst the rampant state legalizations for medical and recreational use. Republican John Fleming of Louisiana states, “as marijuana is de-stigmatized, use goes up, and it finds its way into the homes and candy and cookies and baked goods, and once it gets there, it finds its way into the brains of teens. Marijuana will also become more pervasive as states continue to embrace permissible laws on medical marijuana and the recreational use of marijuana, and kids and youth will have easier access to the dangerous, addictive drug.”

* * * * *

https://www.drugrehab.com/republicans-substance-abuse-policies/

For half a century, the Republican Party has advocated for strict drug laws and little tolerance for drug use. Republican presidents are credited with launching the war on drugs, creating policies that filled prisons and using military resources to combat international drug trafficking.

Nearly 50 years after President Richard Nixon took office, the war on drugs is widely viewed as a failure.

President Richard Nixon signed the Controlled Substances Act in 1970.

Today, Republicans advocate for criminal justice and health care reform, but most conservatives condemn marijuana legalization or decriminalization.

Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the Narcotics Control Act of 1956, lengthening minimum sentences for drug traffickers.

Congress responded by passing the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act, which Nixon signed in 1970. Title II of the bill, more commonly known as the Controlled Substances Act, became a key component of future U.S. drug policy.

The Controlled Substances Act of 1970

This act clarified and strengthened the federal government’s authority to regulate the manufacture, distribution and possession of controlled substances. It also created five classifications of drugs called schedules. The law increased funding for treatment, education and research.

A combination of agencies, including the Bureau of Customs, the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs and the Office of Drug Abuse Law Enforcement, were tasked with enforcing the regulations of new drug laws.

* * * *
The National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse [Created by Nixon] was tasked with reviewing the drug’s effects and the effectiveness of national drug policy. Republican Gov. Raymond Shafer of Pennsylvania led the bipartisan commission, often referred to as the Shafer Commission.

In its report titled “Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding,” the Shafer Commission concluded that marijuana users were not dangerous, and it recommended that drug policy focus on prevention and treatment.

“We have concluded that society should seek to discourage use while concentrating its attention on the prevention and treatment of heavy and very heavy use. The Commission feels that the criminalization of possession of marihuana for personal use is socially self-defeating as a means of achieving this objective.”— 1972 Report from the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse

Nixon and Congress largely ignored the recommendations of the report, and marijuana has remained a Schedule I [same as heroin, etc.] controlled substance for more than 40 years.

****
When the Republicans challenged Carter’s bid for reelection in 1980, the party made it clear that it believed a tougher stance on drugs would be more effective than the decriminalization of marijuana that Carter advocated.
“In recent years, a murderous epidemic of drug abuse has swept our country. Mr. Carter, through his policies and his personnel, has demonstrated little interest in stopping its ravages. Republicans consider drug abuse an intolerable threat to our society, especially to the young.”— 1980 Republican Party Platform

“We’re making no excuses for drugs — hard, soft, or otherwise,” Reagan said in 1982. “Drugs are bad, and we’re going after them. As I’ve said before, we’ve taken down the surrender flag and run up the battle flag. And we’re going to win the war on drugs.”

The 1988 Republican Party platform leading up to Bush’s bid for presidency advocated for an even tougher approach to drug crime.
The party’s stance on drug policy included:
Opposition to legalization or decriminalization of any drug
Support for stiff penalties, including the death penalty, for drug traffickers
Increased penalties, such as ineligibility for federal assistance or loans, for anyone convicted of a drug crime
After entering the oval office, Bush bolstered supply reduction efforts with a national drug control policy that focused heavily on law enforcement efforts. The policy sought tougher drug sentences for recreational users.

With the 1989 plan, Bush requested a $7.9 billion budget for the war on drugs, an increase of $2.2 billion from the year before.

The Republican Party platform of 1992 continued to advocate for punishments for drug offenders and to oppose drug legalization or decriminalization.
...there were a number of marijuana legalization initiatives in states such as Nevada and Arizona that the Bush administration helped defeat. 
During the 2012 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Mitt Romney was unclear about his stance on drug policy, but he was adamantly opposed to the marijuana legalization movement.

2016 Republican Party platform

It condemns marijuana legalization and lax federal policies toward recreational marijuana use.

Comments:

The initiatives in Colorado and Washington are both endorsed by their local democratic parties. The Colorado republican party also endorses Colorado legalization initiative.

As far as killing marijuana and drug reform bills the Republicans seem more active in that regard:
NY marijuana decriminilization reform bill killed by Republicans:
http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2012/06/20/senate-republicans-stop-new-york-marijuana-decriminalization-bill/
Democratic governor in NH veteod a medical marijuana bill:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/27/gop-controlled-legislature-passes-a-medi
At the federal level democrats attempted to defund the war on medical marijuana and this was shot down by republicans:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/democrats-seek-end...
In 2012 12 states failed to pass medical marijuana 9 were majority cotrolled republican legislatures although to be fair 1 of those was vetoed by democratic gov in NH (as stated above) and Wisconsin is split. But still clear difference here.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002481#III
* * *
As a longtime registered Republican and medical marijuana advocate (legally blind, glaucoma, anxiety, insomnia, chronic back pain are my reasons for using) let me translate their platform for the masses:
 
"We wish we could lock up every pot-smoking delinquent, but we don't have enough money. Richard Nixon is our God, Irving Krystol is our prophet, Ronald Reagan is our puppet, and the Tea Party our slaves. We shall continue to use code words, vague rhetoric, false statistics, and outright lies to demonize anything we consider "counterculture". We need to invest heavily in privatized prisons. We hate the fact that medical marijuana exists, and unfortunately we haven't found a way to destroy it outright. When medical marijuana is mentioned, we will just close our eyes and plug our ears, spewing forth the same bigoted garbage as our associates Bill O'Reilly and the exalted John Walters.. We keep a few medical MJ supporters in our party to give the illusion that there might be hope. Anyone up for a game of Super Pac-Man?"
The DNC will go something like this:
"We will expose the drug war, especially the war on medical marijuana, as the complete failure it is. We will have speakers to discuss this failed policy. But... we are truly a bunch of pansies who are scared of the Republicans. Besides, it seems that a good 25% of us are against medical marijuana. If we come out in full support of medical marijuana, it would make Diane Feinstein, John Lynch, and Hitlary Clinton throw a tantrum. Anyways, where's the booze?"

* **
SOOooooooooo.........The party that advocates smaller government and "getting the government off our backs and out of our lives"... still will not advocate the idea that our bodies belong to us and we ARE FREE to ingest what we will. This proves my theory that the whole political process is a huge circle jerk with Obama and Romney as pivot men........The whole lot of them can go straight to hell !!!!!

Rocky

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2017, 07:17:49 AM »
I answered #2 with the information I received from someone who was at the meeting. and it was far more than insurance, but you won't argue these valid points.
If your such a proponent  for SB 1129 SD@, why did you not show up and take a stand and fight for it's passage ?
Cause it's easier to sit on the sidelines and whine about how nothings changing.

     Your question #1 was...
What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
       I asked for the specific policy you speak of but you are unable to  provided.
I gave no irrelevant historical data, actually I gave no data at  all because again I asked for the specific policy you speak of but you are unable to  provided

     You're unbridled enthusiasm for the legalization of Pot is overwhelming.
All  I can see is an angry Hawaiian mossback who wants to make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol so he can come down to town twice a year to have consenting adults legally engage in mutually agreed upon arrangements (buy his Pot).
     You probably didn't vote, your gripe against alcohol  is probably because one of your parents  was an alcoholic  and who knows what your end of life is about, again, probably something personal.
And speaking of personal, a dear family friend, the father of the young man I spent y much of my early childhood with was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, (way before it was a popular term) and expressed his "Right to end Life" with a .357 in the mouth of his backyard.                           
He did not need  permission bureaucrats' .
   
       Your hijacking of my thread and my trying to inform you are now ended.

Happy Harvesting !

 :shaka:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2017, 10:38:41 AM »
You're a liar. Not one single one of your ad hominem speculative demeaning judgments about me is factual. But that's not surprising since you seem to either live in a fantasy land devoid of facts, or are, like the rest of your posts about this supposed Republican party "change", full of nothing but bullshit and more lies. Perhaps you are a liar AND that ignorant of the intent of the newly elected head of the Honolulu County Republican apparatus. Both he (Brett Kulbis) and the person you began this thread with by publishing a message from (Rhonda Welsch) have substantial enough online writings to substantiate that their agenda is fueled by and based upon a deep commitment to fundamentalist christian doctrine, and imposing their interpretations of those doctrines on all citizens as government-enforced law. And that those fundamentalist christian doctrines have absolutely nothing at all to do with your repeated claims that the "new" "changed" Republican party "wants LESS government control/involvement in your life". In fact of course, it's THE EXACT OPPOSITE, which you have never once in the course of this thread directly addressed. It would be so simple, for example: "Yes, even the "new, changed" Republican party wants government to control individual decisions about which substances a person may legally purchase, possess, and consume. And, yes, the "new, changed" Republican party wants government to control individual end-of-life decisions by mentally-competent terminally-ill individuals." But we'll never see that admission of the truth, because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Some examples of their fundamentalist christian-based agenda:

Brent Kulbis:

"Hawaii Future Project is a non-profit public interest group designed to expand the understanding and implementation of Judeo-Christian Values as the foundation of self government."

"History has shown that the fabric of society, when united around biblical principals ..."

"Biblical Authority: The Source of Societal Influence: [A]ll Christian Authority arises from the conviction that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God."

Here is a response from Ms. Welsch re if she supports "liberty and freedom" and " "wants LESS government control/involvement in your life" regarding end-of-life decisions by mentally-competent terminally-ill individuals:

"I believe life is given by God- man or State has no right to intervene in that bi-lateral agreement. Legally assisted Suicide- for me is unacceptable because it would be like Pandora's box- UNCONSTITUTIONAL-BAG IDEA!!! it is morally wrong- any law that violates God's laws is unenforceable... "

Of course there's tons more of similar ilk, including links on their sites to other sites that are even more explicit about making the United States into a christian theocracy. That would have nothing at all to do with personal freedom and liberty, nor "LESS government control/involvement in your life", but rather an imposition of a certain set of (interpreted) values from some highly edited and not infrequently mistranslated ancient writings full of self-contradictory "values" and so vague and cherry-pickable that as a whole it can mean anything to anyone.

Of course you won't answer any of the simple questions asked with simple answers because you know that your premise is false, the goal of these people is NOT "LESS government control/involvement in your life", but the imposition of a particular set of religious values as interpreted and enforced by politicians and law enforcement. Just for fun I'll throw in a fourth question: What is the "new" fundamentalist-christian-based Republican party position going to be on all matters concerning LGBTQ? [Here, I'll save you the trouble of making up shit and lying again: "You must be some pot-smoking fag or tranny or something."]



I answered #2 with the information I received from someone who was at the meeting. and it was far more than insurance, but you won't argue these valid points.

Your "valid points" are nothing but a smokescreen you use to avoid simply stating that you believe the government has the right to dictate which choices are or are not acceptable at end of life and thus you would have to contradict your original claim of wanting "LESS government control/involvement in your life".

If your such a proponent  for SB 1129 SD@, why did you not show up and take a stand and fight for it's passage ?

I don't have the financial resources to travel to Oahu and testify before every committee holding hearings on bills i support or oppose. Besides, I don't support anything but the total removal of government from end-of-life decisions, just like I don't support cannabis being controlled by the government via "decriminalization" and "taxation", etc.

Cause it's easier to sit on the sidelines and whine about how nothings changing.

And you're not "whining"? Be sure to post details about how everything's changed now that you are involved. I mean especially what legislation is passed, that wouldn't have been before "the change", wherein we see "LESS government control/involvement in your life". Please be specific.

     Your question #1 was...
What policy positions were put forth, with what degree of support, to either 1. make the drug alcohol have the same illegal status of all other "illegal drugs", or 2. make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol?
       I asked for the specific policy you speak of but you are unable to  provided.

I gave you literally pages of documentation of Republican party and individual politicians hypocritically condemning some kinds of psychotropic substances and calling for stiff penalties for purchase, possession, and consumption of those without a single word about another psychotropic substance that they believe ought to continue to be legally available despite steep personal and societal costs (alcohol). Pretending that hypocrisy doesn't exist and that the positions supporting those views are completely irrational and have no supporting evidence is laughable. Except it's not funny to all the people in prison (nearly half the prison population).

I gave no irrelevant historical data, actually I gave no data at  all because again I asked for the specific policy you speak of but you are unable to  provided

You made several statements about the history of psychotropic substance government policies as if that had something to do with the long-held Republican policies of irrational hypocritical decisions about the legality or illegality of those substances. I notice you didn't even bother to attempt to repudiate any of those quoted Republican policies and Republican politicians.

     You're unbridled enthusiasm for the legalization of Pot is overwhelming.

So? Is that supposed to be some kind of "criticism"? It would only be that to someone who harbors a deep-seated desire to control other people, especially those who happen to disagree with you. Thus, once again, putting the lie to your claim to "want LESS government control/involvement in your life". Oh, and it's not just "pot". All psychotropic substances should have legal statuses commensurate with their most objective medical and societal benefits and costs. if you are a consumer of alcohol, you might not like where that scientific conclusion leaves you.

All  I can see is an angry Hawaiian mossback who wants to make all "illegal drugs" have the same legal status as the drug alcohol so he can come down to town twice a year to have consenting adults legally engage in mutually agreed upon arrangements (buy his Pot).

I can see the name-calling and the (false) judgment, but I don't see the relevance to the fact that on this issue (and the others discussed) that you lied when you said you "want LESS government control/involvement in your life".


     You probably didn't vote,

False, lying accusation.

your gripe against alcohol  is probably because one of your parents  was an alcoholic 

False, lying accusation.

and who knows what your end of life is about, again, probably something personal.

Yes, I've known several people who were made to suffer needlessly because they were not legally able to choose an option to peacefully end their life when it (according to their own mentally-competent evaluation) was no longer worth living. You yourself give the example of someone, who, denied such an option, may have made such a choice were it available rather that use a firearm, which was probably much more traumatic for the surrounding people. Why do you want to deny people that choice? "Probably something personal"? Or do you just, on principle, "want MORE government control/involvement" in people's lives, especially at one of the most significant moments of their lives?

And speaking of personal, a dear family friend, the father of the young man I spent y much of my early childhood with was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, (way before it was a popular term) and expressed his "Right to end Life" with a .357 in the mouth of his backyard.                           
He did not need  permission bureaucrats' .

See above. But it's good to see that you have such compassion for such situations.
   
       Your hijacking of my thread and my trying to inform you are now ended.

You could have just answered the original questions with simple clear language. Two sentences at most for each. Wonder why you didn't choose that option but instead went off on one irrelevant tangent after another?

Happy Harvesting !

If that is some kind of reference to my relationiship with cannabis, you are attempting to slander me again. I'll repeat: I do not sell, buy, possess, or consume cannabis. But, as per this entire thread, facts don't seem to matter to you.

 :shaka:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 10:52:36 AM by punaperson »

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2017, 04:21:54 PM »
So it's been 10 weeks since March 17 when the OP posted this thread about the amazing transformation about to take place in the Republican party as the fundamentalist christians (Kulbis, et al) would take over and make everything all good.

What's happened in the past 10 weeks to bring that about? I mean except for the Hawaii Republican Party electing and installing pretty much the same people that have always been there... and the "controversy"?

http://hpr2.org/post/internal-strife-hawaii-gop

Internal Strife in Hawai'i GOP

* * * * *
Also, the HIRA that the OP touts in another thread about "transforming" the Hawaii GOP recently railed against the legalization of cannabis without uttering one single word about the legal status of the much more dangerous, personally and societally costly drug alcohol. So much for "personal liberty and responsibility". Hypocrites!

Rocky

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2017, 09:27:45 AM »
So it's been 10 weeks since March 17 when the OP posted this thread about the amazing transformation about to take place in the Republican party as the fundamentalist christians (Kulbis, et al) would take over and make everything all good.

What's happened in the past 10 weeks to bring that about? I mean except for the Hawaii Republican Party electing and installing pretty much the same people that have always been there... and the "controversy"?

http://hpr2.org/post/internal-strife-hawaii-gop

Internal Strife in Hawai'i GOP

* * * * *
Also, the HIRA that the OP touts in another thread about "transforming" the Hawaii GOP recently railed against the legalization of cannabis without uttering one single word about the legal status of the much more dangerous, personally and societally costly drug alcohol. So much for "personal liberty and responsibility". Hypocrites!

      As originally mentioned in my opening post, I was getting more involved in the political  scheme of things to promote strength and  change in Hawaii's Republican party as it seemed our political system here was/is totally one sided and it's not working.
Most of this change was to occur at this year's Annual Convention where "new blood"  was supposed to be elected to "clean house" and make way to revitalize the Hawaiian Republican Party.   :thumbsup:
   The idea here is to REPLACE the ineffective Chairmen of committees Chair Fritz Rohlfing, and other offices and positions including  power hungry greedy Rino types like David Chang, Beth Fukumoto, Pat Saiki, Jack James, Boyd Ready , Andria Tupolo and others so as to replace our Representatives like Gene Ward, Bob McDermott and others like them who continually remain silent in the house and seem to always be voting along with Democrat's on THEIR platform.  :grrr:
   
         So I threw my hat in with Rhonda Welsch the Chair for my district who had recently won her seat against all odds. She sounded sincere ( and sane) but  when I questioned her more thoroughly, she scheduled me to meet with the VP of our district. The meeting was ... rough.
He accused me of being a plant by the very people I had intended to remove and worse yet, a Democrat spy.     >:D                                 
I later found out that he was Rhonda Welsch's boy friend.  ( more  :wtf:)  So much for the nepotism eradication, but still I trudged on for the good of the cause.
   
       I attended some meetings and did LOT"S of research. I found that the annual meetings for voting in officers and officials was always held on Kauai instead of Oahu where there were more representatives and voting delegates such as myself.
2,000 delegates in Hawaii and the Annual meeting  averages 300 including the board, chairs and "other" politico's

     So I wrote up and proposed several "rule changes" for the Rule Changes meeting prior to the annual meeting on Kauai where they would be voted on.
Change would be to at least alternate islands for annual meetings making them more accessible, and even better yet, to allow proxy voting by delegates thereby removing the costly and time consuming attendance at the meeting. 
The people would have a say. It would not help this election, but would  2 years later.
   
     I attended the Rule Changes meeting and found that Rhonda Welsch had added her name to my proposal,  :wtf: but thought Eh,  I'll take the support.

       When my proposals came to the floor, there was no discussion and they were voted down unanimously.  :o   I was sitting next to Pat Saiki who told me "we don't want votes at the meeting, we want body's"  :crazy:
Not even Rhonda Welsch who independently added her name to my proposal offered a motion for discussion much less one for a vote. (after the meeting she was scowling at me as I made her "look bad").   :wacko:
   It was at that moment I realized there would never be any change and withdrew my support.
   
        Shirlene Ostrov was voted in as State Chair on promises she made to "clean house" as stated above. :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
 Nothing has changed, including the release of the results of an internal financial audit. It is already well known that the Hawaii  GOP is not only broke, but in debt. So much that the Mainland GOP offered us no financial support, only advice.   :wave:

    PP, much of what you said about politics here in Hawaii  is true,  :worship: but I hope it is only true for our Republicans here in Hawaii because I've mentioned before, there must be at least two opinions in our government to maintain balance.

PS.
Regarding your original fist question...
Marijuana now is equal to Alcohol in regards to DUI in Marijuana legal many states.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 :shaka:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
Hooray for the new boss. Same as the old boss. I hope we don't get fooled again.

punaperson

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2017, 12:49:52 PM »
Hey Rocky. Here's another view/angle of the same problems you came up against... and facing all American citizens.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/08/02/the-swamps-biggest-willful-blindness-republicans-dont-need-democrats-to-fund-southern-border-wall/#more-136649

The Swamp’s Biggest Willful Blindness – Republicans Don’t Need Democrats To Fund Southern Border Wall…

On December 12th 2014 the Republican controlled House of Representatives passed a 1,600 page continuing resolution, an “omnibus” spending bill of over $2 trillion dollars.  Every one of President Obama’s policy and agenda items was fully funded; including Obama’s executive action on immigration called DACA (Deferred Action for Children of Americans).



Approximately two months later, February 2015, the key-note speaker for the CPAC conference was Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan.  The same Paul Ryan who just passed a $2+ trillion Omnibus and eliminated the debt ceiling. At the conclusion of his speech over 1,000 members of the CPAC audience gave Speaker Ryan a standing ovation.

During a discussion of the irony and hypocrisy someone coined the phrase “Battered Conservative Syndrome” to describe the audience.   What, exactly, did that CPAC audience see as “conservative” in the fiscal action of Paul Ryan in the preceding two months?

Fast forward two and a half years later.  Republicans are in control of the House of Representatives, Republicans are in control of the Senate, a Republican President is in the White House, and somehow there’s “negotiations” on how to fund the #1 campaign promise of President Donald Trump, the border wall.

Here’s the rub.

Here’s what pundits never discuss.

The Republican party doesn’t need a single Democrat to fund the border wall.

A single spending bill could come from the House of Representatives that fully funds 100% of the border wall.  The spending bill then goes to the senate, where again, it doesn’t need a single Democrat vote because spending legislation is specifically what “reconciliation” was designed to facilitate.  That House bill can pass the Senate with 51 votes and proceed directly to the President’s desk for signature.

So, ask yourself: why is this even a point of discussion?

The honest answer, for those who are no longer suffering from Battered Conservative Syndrome, is that Republicans don’t want to fund or build an actual physical barrier known as the Southern Border Wall.

It really is that simple.

To those who would claim this is too simplistic an overview, I would suggest they were probably part of that 2015 CPAC audience.

Yes, the UniParty is very real.

Inspector

Re: Hawaii turns Republican !
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2017, 02:04:35 PM »
...Yes, the UniParty is very real.
Not that it makes a damn bit of difference, nor anyone really cares, but i have been saying all along that both parties are heading toward the same goals (Socialism). Only one party is heading in that direction faster than the other.

It is why I am a registered independent. I refuse to identify with either party any more.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!