Another thing to consider in a HD scenario I'd rather spend just enough to get the job done so I don't cry too hard when it gets tagged and thrown into the evidence locker, and for most Oahu housing situations and AR is probably liability-inviting overkill. But now I'm just playing devil's advocate. If the budget will allow you to buy the DD without going into debt or missing bill payments then do it and start saving up for the ammo and accessories next.

Another thing to consider in a HD scenario I'd rather spend just enough to get the job done so I don't cry too hard when it gets tagged and thrown into the evidence locker, and for most Oahu housing situations and AR is probably liability-inviting overkill. But now I'm just playing devil's advocate. If the budget will allow you to buy the DD without going into debt or missing bill payments then do it and start saving up for the ammo and accessories next.

And, I'm responding to that devil ...   

Anything can happen, but when an 23-year-old in Oklahoma takes out 3 burglars with his AR15, and only took one shot on each, that shows how effective the platform can be in the right hands.

Here's one set of opinions on an AR15 for HD:

http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07/12/why-i-plan-to-switch-from-a-shotgun-to-ar-15-for-home-defense/


And before anyone mentions the mighty .223 / 5.56 round is going to over-penetrate:

http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07/14/why-high-powered-5-56-nato-223-ar-15-ammo-is-safer-for-home-defense-fbi-overpenetration-testing/

 

Copy that. One would still have to buy and practice with the soft-tip low powered ammo and be okay with it travelling in random directions when it exits the first wall, but I concede the point. From a liability perspective the prosecution might be inclined to sway the jury with mentions of "military grade" this and that, especially if a third party gets injured and comes looking for a civil lawsuit payout. In such a case I'm sure your insurance company would appreciate you using the most boring average ordinary firearm possible.

Copy that. One would still have to buy and practice with the soft-tip low powered ammo and be okay with it travelling in random directions when it exits the first wall, but I concede the point. From a liability perspective the prosecution might be inclined to sway the jury with mentions of "military grade" this and that, especially if a third party gets injured and comes looking for a civil lawsuit payout. In such a case I'm sure your insurance company would appreciate you using the most boring average ordinary firearm possible.

Depending on the vocabulary used, almost all guns in the mainstream are "military grade" or were based on such a design.

Since the US Gov't has defined the AR-15 as a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) in their RFPs to purchase a bunch of them, it would be easy to object to the characterizations the prosecutor or plaintiff may want to use.

Mostly buying for home defense, if SHTF, and the occasional range day. I'm leaning towards the DD just because it has everything already besides optics. I want something that will last which I know the DD will and I also know the Colt will as well. Maybe for my second AR, I'd build it up. But as of now, I'm definitely swaying towards the DD.

Another option is BCM. They offer complete uppers in many different configurations. That's how I got my BCM. Ordered a complete upper from a BCM vendor and a complete BCM lower.

Not trying to steer you away from DD, but there are certainly other quality options.

Since you mentioned home defense, I think you're very much on the right track here, which IMO is a complete gun from a known quality manufacturer. Shoot it and get to know what ammo works well (hopefully all).


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Another thing to consider in a HD scenario I'd rather spend just enough to get the job done so I don't cry too hard when it gets tagged and thrown into the evidence locker, and for most Oahu housing situations and AR is probably liability-inviting overkill. But now I'm just playing devil's advocate. If the budget will allow you to buy the DD without going into debt or missing bill payments then do it and start saving up for the ammo and accessories next.

The aspect of people being concerned with a HD gun being help as evidence is something I've heard often, but I personally never gave it much thought. That would be like being concerned about how you deal with muscle pain after you win a marathon. The main thing is the gun did its job and you are alive.

Maybe none of my guns are that expensive, "high end", etc that I would miss them very much. A $5-6k Wilson Combat 1911 wouldn't be my first choice for HD, but I guess it would suck if that gun were to be held as evidence.

Liability due to overkill is another aspect that seems to prop up often. Yeah, grandpa, it's unfair if your grandson chose to break into someone's house and that person was armed and able and willing to defend themselves (reference to OK incident). As long as I didn't wrecklessly blast off dozens of rounds indiscriminately, I acted in self defense, only the bad guy is down, and my loved ones are safe, then I'm willing to roll the dice that way. 


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Good read on the effectiveness of the AR15 for self defense.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-a-myth-that-enemy-combatants-usually-take-a-few-rounds-of-5-56-NATO-in-the-torso-and-are-still-standing/answer/Kenneth-Reese?srid=uriEI

Good read on the effectiveness of the AR15 for self defense.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-a-myth-that-enemy-combatants-usually-take-a-few-rounds-of-5-56-NATO-in-the-torso-and-are-still-standing/answer/Kenneth-Reese?srid=uriEI

"When you hear soldiers talking about shooting people in the chest with 5.56mm rounds and then watching them walk away, what they are describing is called missing."

I'll have to forward this article to one of my good friends. He's in the guard and he's into guns as well. Anyways, one of his active duty friends in his shop shits on ARs/5.56 all the time. Saying that he's seen too many people shot (or assumed) shot with 5.56 and it zips right through them. So he totally swears by AKs as he's seen first hand the damage that they do. I never thought to ask him if he ever saw the person that the 5.56 zipped through to verify a hit.

Seriously, I am sure the AK is devastating as well.

Regarding 5.56, I haven't seen anyone shot with it. I've heard many reports, both first hand by vets and combat medics, on effectiveness of 5.56 as well as reports of occasionally zipping through someone. Never asked about details of where the hit was that zipped through. I had always assumed that for any shot, be it 9 mm(assuming proven HP ammo) or 5.56, shot placement is key. That said, funny things happen.


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Good discussion.  Breaks down the major factors in deciding between HD options.

http://www.usacarry.com/should-you-use-a-handgun-or-long-gun-for-home-defense/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=USACarry

Tough call as the one major factor is our legal climate in HI. Shoot a crumb and you may spend a very long time in jail. The media would likely portray that crumb as just trying to steal to support 5 kids and you, the law abiding citizen, trying to defend your family, put an end to the crumbs dream.

Tough call as the one major factor is our legal climate in HI. Shoot a crumb and you may spend a very long time in jail. The media would likely portray that crumb as just trying to steal to support 5 kids and you, the law abiding citizen, trying to defend your family, put an end to the crumbs dream.

I hear ya. My personal choice for HD is handgun with HP ammo. My place is small and handgun easier to get to and have ready to go as compared to any long gun I own. Even then, if the person wasn't armed, I would expect the same questioning from the public.

One of my best friends is a former prosecutor and we've discussed this many times. He's actually taken the thought process much further than me since he has little kids (where I don't).

That said, I would have no problem using a long gun over a handgun for HD if it was all I had or felt that it would be better than using a handgun. Yeah, tough call and one everyone has to consider. But I think the important thing is the mindset and have put some thought into it.


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First AR.  Colt, BCM or LMT. 

It won't be your last.
Once your addicted, you'll start scouring all the forums and websites and magazines and see all the stuff that's out there.
Do it up on your second one.

These also hold resale value better than most if you ever decide to sell to "fund a new project" (a reason commonly seen in the classifieds by the hopelessly addicted  )

Colt oem 1 or 2.  $650 online

Colt oem 1 or 2.  $650 online

If you can find them for that price and in stock, with reasonable shipping, jump on them!


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   GLOCK     


 

 

Buds Gun Shop.

Colt OEM 1or 2 for just under $685  (cash even cheaper)

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2680/COLT+LE6920-OEM2+CAR+5.56+16+NO+FURNMT

Either colt or dd are great choices
Then get a couple lowers to build later so it's custom from the bottom up
My 1st ar purchase I walked in planning to get 1
Walked out with 1 ar and 3 lowers too

Buds Gun Shop.

Colt OEM 1or 2 for just under $685  (cash even cheaper)

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2680/COLT+LE6920-OEM2+CAR+5.56+16+NO+FURNMT

That's a really good price too and Buds is a solid place as well. I'm tempted to buy another, and I already have one in hand waiting on parts to complete...


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I second the previous comments touting BCM. I too had a hard time deciding on AR-15s recently and looked all around and for their reputation and price, the BCM complete uppers was something I was going to go with. I was looking at a BCM Mid Length Upper with just the standard A2 front sight post and was going to pick up a lower locally. Wasn't going to go crazy with match grade triggers or anything of that sort. Single stage Mil-Spec is fine for me and my intended use as a defensive gun, although my primary home defense gun is a Mossberg 500 Thunder Ranch.

However, found a Colt 6721 at the $900.00 mark and just added the aftermarket Magpul furniture and recently changed the stock to a BCM Mod 0, which is one of the more sturdy collapsible stocks out there for less than 60.00, and lastly a Raptor Ambi Charging handle.

No optics yet, thinking about investing in an Aimpoint PRO or looking at a more economical and fairly tough Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot, but I swapped out the Magpul Mbus for a fixed DD rear sight while there is no optic and will switch back once I do decide on an optic.

$$$$ is a big factor to me and altogether I believe I put in about $1,250.00 on this rifle after the aftermarket "parts" but keeping the OEM BCG and trigger and again it does what I need it to. No plans to shoot competitively at all and I have about 800 rounds through it since owning it in December.

DD is a fine rifle, but if you can get a Colt and make modest upgrades you can save some cash OR definitely look at supporting BCM. Their KMR hand guards feel fantastic and their patented cross bolt lockup at the barrel nut might be one of the most secure systems today.

 

Everyone has already pretty much said it, but once cry once. Nothing sucks more then settling for something you really don't want then. Save up till you can buy what you actually want and you won't regret it. In the long run you'll spend more money trying to make your m&p or colt into a DD. Good luck with the decision man.


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