^^ my British friend did fairly well with his POF in tactical match.  But it was .308.   

Accuracy and reliability are two totally different things.  Feeding and going boom does not equal accuracy.  I would be interested to know how the varminter shot when it did feed; was the accuracy improved over the cheaper rifle?

I disagree.  If the gun doesn't even go boom, then it's neither accurate nor precise.

Anyhow varminter.............I don't shoot it a lot but it's a 1:7 twist.  I built it to shoot 70+ grain ammo.  55 sucked and 70+ wasn't encouraging, however it is still so low in the round count that conceivably it's still in the break in period.  62 grain soft tip, bulk reloads however were pretty friggen tight.  I would say 1/2 to 3/4 moa..............better than me in other words.

sounds like its a headspacing issue?

but that to me is the difference between a "home" build and a build by the high end companys. yes the parts might be the same... but for whatever reason yours didnt go together properly...

the guys at noveske or larue put it together... it messes up... they fix it untill it IS reliable...

see you just gave up and didnt try to fix it..........................

Wasn't headspacing, it was case a sizing issue.  The gun was put together properly, the issue is that the chamber on the Shilen barrel is so tight that the reloads did not work, but they worked in my AR.  The barrel comes with a matched bolt............that tight.

So yes same exact ammo, the expensive fully operational varmint gun was outshot by the cheap AR.  As I said before there are a lot of issues with the general "this is always better than that" argument and especially with regards to firearms.  As I said before some guns like some ammo better than the rest.  Right now the varmint gun loves 62 grain soft points.  As the barrel breaks in I expect that to shift to 70+ grain ammo.  One more item about precision shooting (precision meaning repeatability and accuracy meaning how close you get to your intended point of impact), there is a huge amount of that tied up with the ammo and what that particular firearm likes.  So even with the same ammo, if you change the bullet overall length (playing with how close.touching the bullet comes to the rifling in the barrel)/powder charge/type of power, you can get wildly different results.  So IMHO the same ammo argument doesn't really hold water.

Don't be trapped into the $$$$ = high quality argument.

or maybe you want the malfunctions... so that way you can work on rifle manipulations

hey you can always give your crappy loads to me ill use em. ill keep them in a box to throw occationally in with my good ammo when im doing drills so i will be forced to do malfunction drills!

Man this was full on ammo jammed in the chamber malfunctions.  It was a turn the rifle vertical, ride the charging handle and rap the butt on the table to clear the rifle malfunctions.................then I threw the suckers into the other rifle and yup no issues feeding, firing, and extracting the cartridge.

?

Yes! That's what I mean
I was a little confused when he said "some people are saying they got 1/4 moan groups" and thought he was talking about me saying I got that with my bolt gun. Which I did once but only at 100yards so wind wasn't much a factor.

Ar on the other hand... im hoping to get under 1moa... well see when my next optic comes in

Believe me I KNOW its humbling. I've shot with NCPPRC in Sacramento quite a bit and took my 5Rmom out to 1K. My best shots at 1K WITH a bolt gun was a 18" group. Which I know isn't amazing but I was happy with it. Kept the target

The norm for moa is grouping at 100 yds.  Loads start to stabilize/destabilize at different distances, so a tight group at 100 yds might be junk at 300 yds, whereas a so-so group at 100 yds may start looking better and better the farther out you go.  Shooting real precision type stuff that Teichi/Ren do is really hard and I believe a lot of guys have no idea how hard until they've shot at distance.

Anyhow.................18" group @ 1,000 yds what are you talking about man??!!  That's some friggen good shooting there.  I don't care what you got, that's some good $H1t.

I would rather have a 600 Ak then a 600 AR.

I would rather have a $600 AR in 7.62x39 than a $600 AK

I would rather have $600 in cash.............

I drawed you graff.

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I drawed you graff.

was this supposed to be in the assault pistol debate thread?

I would rather have $600 in cash.............

yea... and that could go toward my bipod, bipod OD mount, micro OD mount, and optic OD mount... wait that might be more then $600... dangit lol

was this supposed to be in the assault pistol debate thread?

It was O_o

yea... and that could go toward my bipod, bipod OD mount, micro OD mount, and optic OD mount... wait that might be more then $600... dangit lol

...............strippers and coke...................

It's kinda funny to hear a topic like this, especially from someone. Who runs a shop lol.

It's kinda funny to hear a topic like this, especially from someone. Who runs a shop lol.

hahaha same thing the boss told me....I'm the cheapskate in the shop.   Everyone else is high $$ & $$$$

I like the best BANG for the buck like everyone else!

Brian runs the shop.  I take care of all the Merchandising, Advertising & Product Development

That's why I have a AR in 7.62x39 also which cost $600 also!

Where did you get that AR from

X-Ring!

Price went up $679 now. 4 week backorder right now.

It's a flat top upper with no sights.  Top rail gas block. Full Float tube.

Other than the fit, finish and QC you may or may not be getting on your gun, sometimes its easy to forget all the little extras and accessories you might be getting.  My buddy felt slightly ripped off after buying his AR.  But I had to point out to him his came with from the factory with troy sights ($220), magpul miad ($35), magpul acs ($110), sling mounts ($30-$60), rail covers ($15) etc...  This may not seem like much, but it adds ups to over $400, if youre someone planning on putting these things on your gun after you bought it regardless, then it defeinatly helps justify the price.

Now, none of these things make you a better shooter by any means.  But you have to understand where some of the companies are cioming from with their higher prices.

DAMN, this is an old thread!

I guess now it should be, "Why is a $6000 AR better than a $2000 one?"

DAMN, this is an old thread!

I guess now it should be, "Why is a $6000 AR better than a $2000 one?"

HA HA HA...You're right HNL need to update the price!..I still say there is no difference as long as you use good parts!

I say there's no $600 AR's anymore

I say there's no $600 AR's anymore

There is just gotta find them.  A customer imported a DPMS for $595 plus shipping and FFL.
He found it in TX at a small gun shop