Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898 (Read 9881 times)

punaperson

Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« on: May 19, 2017, 07:12:10 AM »
Among the many "problems" with SB898 (see thread in "Legal and Activism" https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=26639.0) is that once a person has been deemed "a danger to themsleves or others" the only action taken is to confiscate any firearms registered to that person, thus leaving them free to roam in public with access to any and all other tools that could be used as weapons to inflict injury or death upon other people. This includes, for examples, knives, hammers, machetes, cars, gasoline, poisons, screwdrivers, pieces of pipe, baseball bats, bricks, rocks, mattocks, shovels, axes, chain saws, rope, wire, etc., etc., etc., not to mention the most used "tools" to inflict injury and death in cases of Intimate Partner Violence (IPV) or domestic violence: hands, feet and fists.

As I pointed out in my testimony to the committee (which then passed the bill unanimously), if a person is deemed (in an ex parte hearing in which the accused is neither present nor even informed of the hearing) "a danger to themselves or others" it is completely illogical to leave that person in free in public with every single tool available to harm others except for firearms (which are present in less than 1% of IPV instances). But facts don't matter to legislators, especially when firearms are involved and they have an agenda.

For example, it's possible that this person, under the proposed Hawaii law, could have had his firearms confiscated and still been able to accomplish the following.

Suspect in deadly Times Square automobile mayhem charged with murder

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/19/suspect-in-deadly-times-square-mayhem-charged-with-murder.html

The man accused of steering his car onto one of the busiest sidewalks in Times Square and mowing down pedestrians Thursday has been charged with murder and 20 counts of attempted murder.

Richard Rojas, of the Bronx, also was charged late Thursday with five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide, police said.

The 26-year-old Rojas was arrested Thursday afternoon after his car sped down three blocks in Times Square, hitting nearly two dozen people before steel security barriers finally stopped him.

An 18-year-old tourist from Michigan, Alyssa Elsman, was killed. Her 13-year-old sister was among the 22 injured, four of them critically.

The suspect had served in the U.S. Navy but was discharged after disciplinary problems, military officials said. After his arrest, he told police he was "hearing voices" and expected to die, two law enforcement officials said.

[Given his background of disciplinary problems in the Navy, it's possible that someone may have seen him as a "danger to himself or others" and had such a law been in effect, had his firearms confiscated... leaving him with only every other tool/weapon in existence to harm others.]

ren

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 07:17:35 AM »
our legislators think that we shouldnt have any firearms. :thumbsup:
every leg year its about how can we take away our citizens access to guns? Lets see some bills Democrats. Its not a safety issue its a control issue.
Deeds Not Words

oldfart

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 07:46:49 AM »
When you point out the glaring flaws in their "work" you make them look bad.
It makes our legislators realize how impotent they really are in trying to solve real problems.

Common sense and facts are ineffective weapons against megalomaniacs.  :(
What, Me Worry?

omnigun

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 11:45:19 AM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.

punaperson

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 11:47:46 AM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.
No thanks.  :stopjack:

macsak

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 12:30:15 PM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.

did the AI judge and prosecutor determine this?

Inspector

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 12:43:57 PM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 01:24:34 PM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 02:46:42 PM »
This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.

Can we just ban this guy already ?
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

London808

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 02:49:08 PM »
MURDER IS THE PREMEDITATED/INTENTIONAL ACT OF TAKING SOMEONES LIFE.

DO FUKIN TELL ME IN ALL YOUR WISDOM HOW THIS IS NOT AN INTENTIONAL ACT.

IF YOU THINK ITS NOT, PLEASE SURRENDER ALL OF YOUR FIREARMS TO HPD AS YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY MENTALLY INCAPABLE

"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

omnigun

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 04:13:32 PM »
Admittedly I didn't read too far into this news but from what I heard dude was on drugs and randomly decided to do it.  Pre-meditated is the huge issue here.  This should fall under 2nd degree murder not 1st.

London808

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 04:19:09 PM »
Admittedly I didn't read too far into this news but from what I heard dude was on drugs and randomly decided to do it.  Pre-meditated is the huge issue here.  This should fall under 2nd degree murder not 1st.

SO BASICALLY LIKE ALWAYS YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT SHIT WITHOUT KNOWING ANYOF THE  FACTS.

GO FIND ANOTHER FORUM TO TROLL ON WE ARE DONE WITH YOUR BS HERE
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

omnigun

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 04:33:23 PM »
SO BASICALLY LIKE ALWAYS YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT SHIT WITHOUT KNOWING ANYOF THE  FACTS.

GO FIND ANOTHER FORUM TO TROLL ON WE ARE DONE WITH YOUR BS HERE

.....Wasn't even trolling I still support that he should be charged with 2nd degree murder not 1st.  Dude was a drugged out crazy dude.  You are correct though I did prejudge a bit on what little information I heard on the news.  One of the few times I should of researched more  before writing.

macsak

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 04:56:01 PM »
.....Wasn't even trolling I still support that he should be charged with 2nd degree murder not 1st.  Dude was a drugged out crazy dude.  You are correct though I did prejudge a bit on what little information I heard on the news.  One of the few times I should of researched more  before writing.

so you were 97% sure it wasn't murder?

ren

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 05:13:38 PM »
it is a 100% 187
The guy took a stroll around the block!
Deeds Not Words

Inspector

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 05:25:09 PM »
Admittedly I didn't read too far into this news but from what I heard dude was on drugs and randomly decided to do it.  Pre-meditated is the huge issue here.  This should fall under 2nd degree murder not 1st.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

omnigun

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 06:40:07 PM »
Just watched the news, he was charged with 2nd degree murder.  All is well in the justice system. 

Inspector

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 06:46:03 PM »
Just watched the news, he was charged with 2nd degree murder.  All is well in the justice system.
Second degree murder is still murder. What happened to:

This is not murder the charges will never stick unless our legal system really is that fucked.

Lying and trolling. What an idiot.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

macsak

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 07:20:29 PM »
One of the few times I should of researched more  before writing.

wait a second, earlier you had posted something along the lines of "i care so little about the discussions here that i don't put much time into what i write"
so which is true 97% of the time?

macsak

Re: Automobile (Attempted) Murders and SB898
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 07:21:34 PM »
Just watched the news, he was charged with 2nd degree murder.  All is well in the justice system.

and earlier you said our system is fucked up if it is murder
which is it, "fucked up" or "all is well"