20 ga coach shotgun with birdshot for me.  Short, light, double triggers and hammers.  Neighbors are way to close and lots of children in the home so I need to worry about over penetration.   

20 ga coach shotgun with birdshot for me.  Short, light, double triggers and hammers.  Neighbors are way to close and lots of children in the home so I need to worry about over penetration.

Some meth head with a heavy jacket breaks in the house, you'll rethink the birdshot decision.

Bird shot is for birds.

If over penetration is a concern, I would recommend #4 buck.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/federal-personal-defense-shotshells-pd2564b-gauge-pellets-1100-buck-buckshot-shot-rdbx-p-118327.html

Bird shot is for birds.

Truth.  The linked picture is what happens when you're shot by birdshot at 8 feet from a Taurus judge.  The guy was attacked as he was leaving a club and was shot by the mugger as he tried to escape.  You can see from the picture that the pellets didn't even break the skin for the most part.  According to the victim he was still aware of everything that was going on, just surprised.

This also matches what my friend who worked as an x-ray technician up in Oregon told me about gunshot wounds.  Birdshot really won't do much to human sized targets.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee265/Mantis877/Judgepointblank.jpg

+1 for #4 buck or bigger.

+1 for #4 buck or bigger.

I read somewhere that #1 is the best combination of  a large number of pellets combined with reliable 12" penetration depth.  The cross-sectional area of a load of #1 is much bigger than 00, but it still will reliably get deep enough to poke holes in the blood-bearing organs.  Which is the whole point, of course.

Truth.  The linked picture is what happens when you're shot by birdshot at 8 feet from a Taurus judge.  The guy was attacked as he was leaving a club and was shot by the mugger as he tried to escape.  You can see from the picture that the pellets didn't even break the skin for the most part.  According to the victim he was still aware of everything that was going on, just surprised.

This also matches what my friend who worked as an x-ray technician up in Oregon told me about gunshot wounds.  Birdshot really won't do much to human sized targets.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee265/Mantis877/Judgepointblank.jpg

A Taurus judge is hardly the gold standard by which to, er, judge. 

Bird shot (or any shot) from a shotgun with a barrel more than 4" long expands at a rate of about 1" per yard traveled.  So at 1 yard, that 1 ounce clump of shot is only 1" larger than when it exited the bore.  It might as well be a slug.  At 2 yards, it's all of 2" wider than it was when it exited the bore, an overall pattern less than 3" in diameter.  Might as well be buckshot.  At 3 yards, we're approaching a diameter of 4", about the same level of effectiveness as #4 shot.  Somewhere around 5 yards, the pellets are far enough apart that they're now losing the effective of a coherent mass and becoming tiny, individual projectiles. 

5 yards is pretty far for a defensive shooting situation. 

I acknowledge that the Judge is not the best home defense gun which is why I mentioned the gun in the first place .  I want to report as much of the facts that I can get a hold of. 

Would you be willing to share your sources regarding the ballistic effect of birdshot at close range?  I know shooting my Mossberg 500 at 7 yards I get a spray of pellets all over the target with an 18" barrel.  It that with a particular brand of birdshot?

hd comes down to options and limitations

shot of any size  may limit your shooting options/lanes ie shooting past /over non threats
any longun will limit corridor /hallway movement
knives/ impact weapons and sprays are limited to 15 feet or less
most modern pistol calibers will penetrate at least one wall of a house
your caliber might need to penetrate a barrier to get  a bg  ( couch / interior door )
if you stash multiple  firearms / weapons the bg might already be armed with your stuff

When I was reading up on home defense ammo I came across a posting that said, "if you shoot  birdshot at a home invader, you will then have an angry home invader" or something to that effect.

Please consider that I read a few articles on this many years ago and that I am trying to just repeat what they said. My memory may not be that great in this case. I believe the experts (That I have read) say that you have to assume the invader is hyped up on drugs which can give them the ability to continue on no matter how much pain you can inflict. Not to mention super human strength. Which means the only reasonable self defense method is the one that shuts down the body's ability to continue to function. In other words, a head shot or an organ shot that shuts down the hydraulic pumping of blood. They went on to say that a head shot is probably too difficult under the circumstances. A body shot was recommended but I don't remember if they talked about upper or lower body. So they recommended a self defense round with maximum expansion in the largest caliber you can comfortably deal/practice with. They mentioned Black Talon ammo at that time as it expanded with very sharp petals/points that apparently did a lot of damage even if it missed a vital organ. I believe that Black Talon was later restricted to LEO only. They did deal with the penetration issue by recommending rounds such as the Glaser Safety Slug (This was a long time ago, BTW) and others. And for shotguns I believed they said to use a 12 gauge with a certain loading (can't remember) but said if you are worried about wall penetration don't use a shot gun. A lot of things have changed since I read these articles but I think the basics are still valid.

#4 buck for loud noises in the house and 9mm pistol for checking outside/answering the door. I live in a very dense neighborhood with lots of single wall construction chewed away by termites and have mapped out some shooting lanes that have more than one wall or some appliances/tools in the way. The neighborhood kids here are really nice and i'd rather die than hit one of them by accident so in some cases shooting is not an option, but the benefits are more people watching each others back so I give away stuff from the garden and make conversation any chance I get.

#4 buck for loud noises in the house and 9mm pistol for checking outside/answering the door. I live in a very dense neighborhood with lots of single wall construction chewed away by termites and have mapped out some shooting lanes that have more than one wall or some appliances/tools in the way. The neighborhood kids here are really nice and i'd rather die than hit one of them by accident so in some cases shooting is not an option, but the benefits are more people watching each others back so I give away stuff from the garden and make conversation any chance I get.

Prevention is much more desirable than having to actually make that decision.

Rem 870 w/ Winchester 12 gauge PDX1 Defender... 1oz. Rifled Slug + 3 Plated 00 Buck Pellets..... ***Diabolical Laugh**** Muuuaaaa haahhhaaaah ahhhhahhhhaaaaa!

Although theres lots of better options... Id rather have a 12 g. with 5 rounds of bird shot than nothing....

Shotgun or handgun. -  I would use both

What is the ideal weapon for home defense?  Mossberg 500 Pump with double 0 buck

What is your designated home defense firearm? both...






 

I strongly believe in most HD situations, the shotgun is the better choice.

My first, most accessible weapon, however, is a pistol.

The main reason is accessibility.

I can get into the handgun safe in 2 seconds.

Now if someone gives me warning that they're going to break in, rob and hurt my family... I promise, I'll be waiting with a loaded 12 gauge.

This!!

But, fyi........

1. M&P .40 - Hollow point (closest prox to bed and fastest access)
2. Benelli 12ga - 00 Buck (different room/seperate safe)

On a sidenote, I will say that my first line of defense in my home is actually not firearm related. He's a 150 pd Cane Corso that is NOT fond of strangers and very well trained!! He's an indoor dog and lives downstairs, gauranteed to wake me up and provide me with extra prep time if there is an intruder!! 

For me it's either of my pistols, a Glock 17 with Gold Dots or a HK USP 40c with some Remington or Fiocchi HPs.  I have a few ARs, but I live in a small condo and it would be too unwieldly and too high a risk of shooting right through the drywall. 

I don't have a shotgun, but I've debated getting a 12 GA after shooting one of my friend's guns. 

A Taurus judge is hardly the gold standard by which to, er, judge. 

Bird shot (or any shot) from a shotgun with a barrel more than 4" long expands at a rate of about 1" per yard traveled.  So at 1 yard, that 1 ounce clump of shot is only 1" larger than when it exited the bore.  It might as well be a slug.  At 2 yards, it's all of 2" wider than it was when it exited the bore, an overall pattern less than 3" in diameter.  Might as well be buckshot.  At 3 yards, we're approaching a diameter of 4", about the same level of effectiveness as #4 shot.  Somewhere around 5 yards, the pellets are far enough apart that they're now losing the effective of a coherent mass and becoming tiny, individual projectiles. 

5 yards is pretty far for a defensive shooting situation. 

If I were to use a Taurus Judge for home defense, it would be loaded with 250gr Speer Gold Dots (PN: 23984).  Then again, if I was to use .45 LC for home defense, it wouldnt be in a Taurus Judge...

My cell phone to call 911.

My cell phone to call 911.

Not for nothing, but PD is to take names and make a case after the fact...

I protect my family.

Hawaii needs to recognize the fact that people have the right to protect themselves and their families!!!

In many cases calling 911 is too late................