I was watching a 6.5 guys video where they load precision 223 using a Dillon 550. 

They said the ammo is very accurate.  They use another caliber for the long range matches but use 223 as cheaper practice ammo.

Does anyone here use a progressive for their 223 used in short range matches (say 200-300 yards)

They didn't mention (or I missed) the grain of bullet used, but I assume it can be done with larger grain bullets since they noted using an electric toothbrush to settle the powder

How full do you have to keep the powder dispenser for it to throw accurately/consistently?  I assume the throw isn't as dense as the weight of powder in the container goes down

I don't plan to enter any matches but am interested in reducing reloading time.

(Using a loaned Lee turret and a loaned Lee single till I learn more)

I started with a Lee Measurer then bought a RCBS Measurer. The Lee seems better with extruded powers and RCBS with ball powders. I use the RCBS powder baffle to keep the flow uniform. I tried the Lyman Measurer and it sucked.

This is my favorite series.

I was watching a 6.5 guys video where they load precision 223 using a Dillon 550. 

They said the ammo is very accurate.  They use another caliber for the long range matches but use 223 as cheaper practice ammo.

Does anyone here use a progressive for their 223 used in short range matches (say 200-300 yards)

They didn't mention (or I missed) the grain of bullet used, but I assume it can be done with larger grain bullets since they noted using an electric toothbrush to settle the powder

How full do you have to keep the powder dispenser for it to throw accurately/consistently?  I assume the throw isn't as dense as the weight of powder in the container goes down

I don't plan to enter any matches but am interested in reducing reloading time.

(Using a loaned Lee turret and a loaned Lee single till I learn more)

There are lots of different thoughts on this. I'll just give you my opinions for what their worth.

I am wondering if they use a progressive for their actual long range match ammo? As it was emphasized that the .223 was used as practice ammo.

I have no doubt you can make some very fine and accurate .223 ammo with a progressive. I personally would not use a progressive for rifle ammo and I will explain why. Everything has a tolerance including your desire to throw perfect amounts of powder every time and to make every cartridge perfectly concentric. It all really boils down to your tolerance of your equipment's tolerances. When you use a progressive press for rifle cartridges it is felt that there are tolerances not found in a single stage that will vary more than in a single stage. For instance, when loading rifle cartridges for precision use, you will want each and every charge to weigh exactly the same. While a good powder measure will be consistent it will not throw the exact same weight every time. That is why when I load precision rifle ammo, I weigh each charge individually. That sort of defeats the advantages of a progressive which is speed. Also, I believe that the single stage press will more consistently create more concentric cartridges. Again, this is only my opinion. People will disagree with me. So all of this is not to say that you cannot create some very accurate ammo with a progressive that you can use for practice. It is just that for precision work, I believe the single stage is superior to the progressive because I believe it can be more consistent if used properly than a progressive.

There are other things I prefer to do while creating precision ammo such as making sure the primer was set properly and all the way in. I can do this before I drop powder. But if you are using your progressive to install primers you won't be able to check each cartridge until after the cartridge is completed and more likely not until after the entire run of 100, 200, 300 or more cartridges are completed. Also, I perform certain checks while I go along with each step. If I am using a powder measure instead of weighing each charge separately, I can check to make sure I didn't accidentally short charge or overcharge each case before I seat bullets. The idea for me is to catch any mistakes before cartridge completion gets too far. Like powder measure creep. If using a powder measure I weigh every tenth round or so as sometimes the charges might gain a tenth of a grain after 50 or 100 throws. Or even after 10 throws. It defeats the purpose of the progressive if you have to keep checking every tenth round or so. You may not find out your powder measure is throwing a heavier or lighter charge until after you are done loading hundreds of rounds. Also, I would make sure you have a good working powder lock die because double charges or over charges or squib loads are possible with a progressive. I prefer the old fashioned look and see method. But again that is just me. If making practice ammo or plinking ammo, I think a progressive can be helpful. I am just old fashioned and wouldn't do it. Guess it is a control issue or OCD. 

I use a Lee turret for most of my pistol rounds as tolerances are not as critical because I can't shoot a pistol worth shit. But I have fun trying. When you run your pistol cartridge up to the sizing die, you will notice that the turret moves up and down very slightly each time the case is inserted into a die. If you have no tolerance for tolerances you will go out and buy a good quality progressive like the new RCBS or the Lee or even better the Dillon presses or use your single stage. Since I usually shoot 200-300 rounds a session I can reload up to 400 rounds an hour with the Lee turret but 300 rounds an hour is more realistic. I don't remember how long it takes to reload that many rounds using a single stage.

Those are some of my thoughts. There is no real right or wrong here. So do what you think is best for you. Just be careful. Practice safety at all times and be picky. And be slow at first and work your way up to going faster. I prep all my cases completely then I hand prime each case. Then I charge each case and then I seat each bullet/boolit. And during and after each step I do my usual checks and double checks. I write down what I am loading on a piece of paper. I only bring the correct primers, powder and bullets to the bench that I need and never have more than one type of each on the bench for what I am loading when I load a particular cartridge. That way I don't mix up powder, bullets, primers, cases which can be disastrous. Before I start I double check that I am using the correct components and I have double checked my powder charge. Reloading can be fun, enjoyable, relaxing and rewarding. But if you are making crappy ammo that doesn't feed in your semis or gives you squib loads every so often, reloading will become more of a chore. JMHO

Well said. I weigh each charge until I'm confident that the Measurer can throw accurate loads. Otherwise I use my scoop to add or subtract. With some powders, just tapping the powder on the scale and resettling can make a difference of 0.1 grain.

Tnx rk and Dave for all the sound advice!

I'll use the turret as a single stage while I learn.

I have the workbench in place.  Next I have to mount  the presses and install the dies in the turret plates.

We'll try reloading 223 and 308 this weekend.  Hopefully I can get a friend to watch/mentor us so we don't mess up too much

Tnx again!

I was watching a 6.5 guys video where they load precision 223 using a Dillon 550. 

They said the ammo is very accurate.  They use another caliber for the long range matches but use 223 as cheaper practice ammo.

Does anyone here use a progressive for their 223 used in short range matches (say 200-300 yards)

They didn't mention (or I missed) the grain of bullet used, but I assume it can be done with larger grain bullets since they noted using an electric toothbrush to settle the powder

How full do you have to keep the powder dispenser for it to throw accurately/consistently?  I assume the throw isn't as dense as the weight of powder in the container goes down

I don't plan to enter any matches but am interested in reducing reloading time.

(Using a loaned Lee turret and a loaned Lee single till I learn more)

They were using Hornady 75gr Amax Bullets, they are no longer made. The ELD line is their new bullet that sort of took over. ---- I've watched that video several times. They are regulars on the PRS Series of matches and they shoot 6.5X47 I believe. There 223 trainers are built on Defiant actions to replicate their 6.5 rigs.

There are lots of different thoughts on this. I'll just give you my opinions for what their worth.

I am wondering if they use a progressive for their actual long range match ammo? As it was emphasized that the .223 was used as practice ammo.

Inspector's opinions, especially on .223rem, are wise words. He's helped me a ton.

The video mentioned is made by PRS Match shooters. They built 223s on custom actions to replicate their match rigs. They shoot them, to minimize wear and extend barrel life on their 6.5 match guns, at shorter ranges for practice. Plus cost of ammo is a lot cheaper. I'm not sure what type of accuracy they consider accurate but Amaxs are probably not the best for accuracy IMO. I'm sure many will disagree but I just think there are better options.

Inspector's opinions, especially on .223rem, are wise words. He's helped me a ton.

The video mentioned is made by PRS Match shooters. They built 223s on custom actions to replicate their match rigs. They shoot them, to minimize wear and extend barrel life on their 6.5 match guns, at shorter ranges for practice. Plus cost of ammo is a lot cheaper. I'm not sure what type of accuracy they consider accurate but Amaxs are probably not the best for accuracy IMO. I'm sure many will disagree but I just think there are better options.

Thanks for the kind words, Bushido. I do appreciate it.

I agree that the Hornady A-Max is not the most accurate bullet. They are excellent bullets but when accuracy down to fractions of an inch is necessary, there are much better options. Especially cheaper options as Hornady A-Max bullets are not cheap by any means. However, if Hornady is a sponsor then I am sure they are getting their bullets much cheaper than you and I can.

.

Consistency is subjective. As others have said, the only way to make sure is to weigh each charge. I've also heard complaints about the consistency with auto measurers (though I have no experience with them... yet). With some powders, 0.1 grains is a significant amount and with others just a few sticks.

From what I understand they find a "plateau" where the velocity does not vary much as the grains increases. 

They load for the powder weight at the center of this velocity "plateau".   So even if the metered powder is slightly low or high the velocity won't be affected as much

I'm not an expert at LR shooting. From what I understand, bullet velocity does not always equal accuracy due to barrel harmonics, bullet stabilization, recoil pulse, pressure curves and other factors. The bullet may become more accurate at higher velocities or may become more unstable. The only way to find out is to test it, and you have to weigh each charge for the test rounds to find the middle of the plateau. At least that's what makes sense to me.

Hi rk
Me too, I'm master of nothing.  Complete beginner

Your right, I think they do weight for testing loads

.

Accuracy is all relative. What one may consider accurate, another may never shoot that load again and deem their barrel shot out.  It really comes down to what your standards and goals are. Benchrest guys are shooting 5 shot groups less than .010" @ 100y while some hunters consider Minute Of Deer acceptable. At the end of the day, it comes down to what you consider accurate.

Going back to original post, I doubt the 6.5 Guys would use a progressive if they were looking fo the MOST ACCURATE loads out of a .223rem or any caliber for that matter. Keep in mind they are for the most part PRS style shooters. They are generally shooting at steel at various distances and positions and not looking for benchrest level of accuracy. For that, a progressive would be more than sufficient. Hell some guys are using tricklers on scales of this caliber https://www.amazon.com/Sartorius-GD503-NTEP-Precious-Metal-Scale/dp/B00C6VFZ4W . I am not one of those guys but I do respect every discipline of shooting and what they can achieve. 

.

Tnx bushido for the info!

From what I understand they find a "plateau" where the velocity does not vary much as the grains increases. 

They load for the powder weight at the center of this velocity "plateau".   So even if the metered powder is slightly low or high the velocity won't be affected as much

tim, for the past couple of months now i've been reading about a lot of the different accuracy theories, specifically the ones that relate to load development (e.g. OCW, OBT, Ladder, Satterlee, etc.).  one of the common themes i'm seeing is that, in order to get useful results from your load development there are 3 things that a lot of people, especially new reloaders, ignore.

1) the rifle needs to be very precise.  if the rifle is incapable of putting tiny groups on paper, then it is almost a waste to do load development for that rifle.
2) the shooter needs to be able to put tight groups on paper.  if the shooter can't put tight groups on paper, then there is no way to really compare results of different loads.  a lot of the guys that shoot long range or benchrest stuff are able to mostly take the human equation out of it.  it's interesting when you go to KHSC and you see people who have terrible technique and are not practicing good shooting fundamentals.
3) the reloader needs to understand the importance of each step in the process and needs to produce consistent loads.  if the loads aren't consistent, then it almost doesn't matter good the rifle or shooter is since the results will not be conclusive.

here's an example:

i recently learned the importance of consistent neck tension.  i did some load development for a 308.  i was able to find a load that seemed very accurate, but i was strangely getting one flyer out of a 5-shot group.

in all 3 pictures below, the load is exactly the same.  two of the pictures were from two range trips where i shot a 5-shot group to test the load.  note the one flyer of the 5 for both groups.  also note that the center x-ring is 1" in diameter and the rings are graduated in 1/2" increments.
when i got home, i used a digital caliper to check the neck diameter of the brass i was using.  a portion of the brass had a neck ID ranging from 0.296" to 0.301".  ideally for a bolt action you want the neck ID to be around 0.306" or somewhere around there.

after i measured out all of the brass, i made more rounds of the same load.  on the third trip, i let my friend have some time behind the rifle.  the third pic is her 7-shot group.  I would have let her squeeze of 3 more rounds, but the buzzer rang and we had to head out.  this was a different set of stickers, which are 1" in diameter.  i drew a yellow circle that is 1" in diameter (same size as the sticker) to show her that her group was easily sub MOA.

anyway, moral of the story is:  in order to have useful results from load development, you need an accurate rifle, a good shooter, and good reloading practices.

edit:  before klapp asks, yes, these were shot at 100 yards.

Nice. I'm very particular with COAL. I use the Lee trim gauge. If it doesn't touch the rim, I don't use the case. Maybe someday, I'll start to use a neck reamer.

:

i recently learned the importance of consistent neck tension.  i did some load development for a 308.  i was able to find a load that seemed very accurate, but i was strangely getting one flyer out of a 5-shot group.

in all 3 pictures below, the load is exactly the same.  two of the pictures were from two range trips where i shot a 5-shot group to test the load.  note the one flyer of the 5 for both groups.  also note that the center x-ring is 1" in diameter and the rings are graduated in 1/2" increments.
when i got home, i used a digital caliper to check the neck diameter of the brass i was using.  a portion of the brass had a neck ID ranging from 0.296" to 0.301".  ideally for a bolt action you want the neck ID to be around 0.306" or somewhere around there.

What have you done to produce more consitent neck tension? Ie. Anneal every firing, turning ID and OD of neck, sorting brass, etc...  I'm just curious.

For me, my loads have produced 1/4" at 100 and can regularlly do 1/2". At distances, I know it's my wind calls more than my load that is my issue.