How much are potholes costing you? (Read 6822 times)

MuffinMan

How much are potholes costing you?
« on: July 25, 2017, 12:06:19 PM »
Ugh.......
They always blame the rain, but driving on the mainland (Colorado for example) the roads are subjected to freezing in the winter, desert heat in the summer, monsoon rains and are still better than ours

http://www.civilbeat.org/2017/07/honolulus-potholes-cost-drivers-and-taxpayers-millions/

suka

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 12:08:55 PM »
Why replace when you can fix for a bigger contract.
The Unions needs the money.

rklapp

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 12:30:55 PM »
The H1 east bound lanes at exit 10 are the worst. They replaired it at exit 13 so will be nice to see it happening more.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

eyeeatingfish

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 01:53:19 PM »
In a radio interview some engineer person explained why Hawaii's environment is actually worse. He mentioned the salt water of course but also mentioned how quickly it changes back and forth for us. Rain, sun, rain sun and then rain again which the mainland often doesn't have.

drck1000

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 02:03:58 PM »
Performance of pavement is typically all about the durability of the driving surface as it protects the subgrade.  Once the water gets through that and gets into the subgrade, it's that pressure from the water getting under there that causes the damage to grow quickly.  If they didn't prepare the subgrade properly, then it's an endless battle until you correct the root cause. 

Like the areas of Seattle that were paved over old brick roads.  They never got good pavement until they bit the bullet and either took out the brick below (that were settling unevenly). 

Freezing also isn't a big deal as long as the subgrade is protected (similar to above) and they know the frost depth.  In concrete pavement, they need to have proper air entrainment (literally bubbles in the concrete) to try to prevent cracking from the freeze-thaw cycles. 

Personally, Hawaii's roads are bad due to neglect.  Asphalt pavement needs maintenance and patches only go so far. 

changemyoil66

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 02:12:14 PM »
I don't understand when I'm in Vegas, I didn't see 1 pot hole.  And I've been going there for many years.  On the strip, down town, off strip. 

What are they doing that Hawaii isn't.  To be fair, it could be the rain.

drck1000

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 02:27:29 PM »
Here's a good article on potholes. 

Quote
All roads are built to avoid an accumulation of water. For example, a well-engineered street or highway has a slight crown in the middle, which channels water to the sides. But water is very insistent. It finds a way in and under pavement. The crown and the emulsifying agents only work at repelling water until there is a compromise in that pavement: cracks due to traffic wear and tear, cuts from utility work and pavement separations due to extreme heat and sunlight. In low areas, such as under railroad viaducts and highway overpasses, water simply accumulates after storms.

Once there is an opening, water seeps into pavement. It might expand and contract in freeze-thaw cycles. Water can also, in sufficient quantities, wash out the lower layers of stone and dirt supporting the surface layer. In warmer climates not subject to freeze-thaw cycles, the problem begins with heat-caused deterioration. Cracks from the heat allow water in, eroding the sub-surface layers. In either case, an air gap is formed in the sub-base of the pavement.

As vehicles pass over these sub-surface gaps, the top layer sags, collapses and crumbles. A pothole is born.

https://www.pothole.info/2010/07/how-do-potholes-form/

For dry areas like Arizona and Nevada, you don't see many potholes due since water is one of the main culprits for formation of potholes. 

RSN172

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 03:17:39 PM »
Another reason I should move to NV
Happily living in Puna

oldfart

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 04:16:21 PM »
My dead end street just got repaved, even though it did not need it.
While just a half mile away I had to swerve all over the road to avoid getting pounded.
Priorities are messed up.
What, Me Worry?

rklapp

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 04:28:31 PM »
True about Vegas. The problem is that the hot surface melts the rubber which covers the delineated lines with black residue so you can't tell which lane you're suppose to be in. Most of the drivers are either tourists or taxis. Now that recreational marijuana is legal, no one cares anymore.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

Lihikai

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 05:02:58 PM »
Maybe the roads are shitty because many of the DOT engineers and management got their degrees from the same useless university.

rklapp

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 05:10:22 PM »
Traffic congestion is job security for civil engineers.
Yahh! Freedom and justice shall always prevail over tyranny, Babysitter Girl!
https://ronsreloading.wordpress.com/

drck1000

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 08:04:00 AM »
Maybe the roads are shitty because many of the DOT engineers and management got their degrees from the same useless university.
HDOT generally doesn't do design for the roadways.  Most, if not all, are contracted out to private engineering consultants.  Though many likely went to the same university as those working at HDOT. 

oldfart

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 08:12:13 AM »
Maybe the roads are shitty because many of the DOT engineers and management got their degrees from the same useless university.
==========
The C&C finally finished repaving my area.
But the dudes who painted the temporary lane markers had cars running head-on into each other for about a week. :rofl:
What, Me Worry?

RSN172

Re: How much are potholes costing you?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 03:49:04 PM »
==========
The C&C finally finished repaving my area.
But the dudes who painted the temporary lane markers had cars running head-on into each other for about a week. :rofl:

Hey, this is Hawaii.  What do you expect?
Happily living in Puna