Home Based FFL Possible? (Read 7815 times)

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Home Based FFL Possible?
« on: February 19, 2012, 07:23:57 AM »
I found this advertised in some of the gun rags:

http://www.ffl123.com

Is it possible this guy found a loophole? What does everyone think about this? Scam?
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Tom_G

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 08:37:58 AM »
Looks sketchy.  I think you should give it a try and report back!  ;)
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

tonsofguns

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 09:55:35 AM »
That ffl123 thing been around along time. I remember seeing this and wanting to try it about 10 years ago.

vooduchikn

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 12:45:01 PM »
Home based FFLs are possible in many states. Not in Hawaii anymore.

Not here because you have to operate (or store records) from a storefront, unless you possessed a "kitchen FFL" prior to Hawaii changing the laws.   Those that have them (like Al from "ready on the right") are grandfathered in.

I have already discussed this with the local ATF and you will not get an endorsement without a storefront/business zoned property.



Relax, I've banned myself..

Funtimes

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 02:07:13 PM »
Home based FFLs are possible in many states. Not in Hawaii anymore.

Not here because you have to operate (or store records) from a storefront, unless you possessed a "kitchen FFL" prior to Hawaii changing the laws.   Those that have them (like Al from "ready on the right") are grandfathered in.

I have already discussed this with the local ATF and you will not get an endorsement without a storefront/business zoned property.
I would love to know more about the zoning requirements.  People operate out of a warehouse, but then they can't operate out of a 'storage' unit from what I have heard.  Not sure why, I would love to see some of this stuff in writing, but I have not had the time to look.  Everything the ATF has needs to be written down some where - so i guess it wouldn't hurt to get that information.

Aegis808

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 10:19:31 AM »
zombie thread

does anyone know where to find the hawaii revised statute that prohibits FFLs based out of a non-commercial  zone?

mauidog

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 10:49:16 AM »
zombie thread

does anyone know where to find the hawaii revised statute that prohibits FFLs based out of a non-commercial  zone?

It's not so much the Zone your property is in, but the use of it.  If it's a residence (can be in a Residential Zone, Apartment Zone, or Apartment Mixed-Use Zone), it likely falls into the Home Occupations ordinance.

Revised Ordinances of Honolulu  (ROH)
Quote
Chapter 21, Sec 21-5.350:            Home Occupations.

(i) The following activities are not permitted as Home Occupations:
     ...
     (6)  Sale of Guns and Ammunition.
     ...

https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/ocs/roh/ROH_Chapter_21_art_4-6.pdf
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

asinapple8805

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 05:42:20 PM »
It's not so much the Zone your property is in, but the use of it.  If it's a residence (can be in a Residential Zone, Apartment Zone, or Apartment Mixed-Use Zone), it likely falls into the Home Occupations ordinance.

Revised Ordinances of Honolulu  (ROH)
https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/ocs/roh/ROH_Chapter_21_art_4-6.pdf

so if sales of guns and ammo are disallowed, are FFL import transfers considered "selling?"  in other words, could one obtain an FFL purely to help facilitate transfers from online vendors and not fall within the "sales" prohibition?

suka

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 06:01:09 PM »
The ATF does not have any zoning requirement to have a FFL, It is not a federal issue.

State, Municipals, and Cities do have zoning codes. Most (places) prohibit any type of retail or wholesale in residential areas.
However, some low impact retail is permitted in residential zones such as home offices but it all depends on how the governing authority ,  zoning codes are written.


FFL kits are FREE from atf.com 




mauidog

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 07:18:07 PM »
Whether you are "selling" guns or just transferring them, you still have the same considerations a regular dealer has.

You must accept delivery from sellers, arrange pickup by the local buyers, and arrange shipping to off-island buyers.  That means storage, insurance, and transporting firearms.

Considerations:

Customer traffic in and out
Customer parking
Security to prevent theft (strangers entering your place includes risk of a holdup)
Insurance to cover loss from fire or theft (Insurance companies may not be as lenient interpreting the ordinance if you aren't zoned for "firearm sales")
Neighbors complaining that they don't want a "gun dealer" where their kids live and play.
Your Dealer FFL would allow you to buy and sell guns.  It might take extra effort to convince the local government officials you are not going to engage in actual firearms sales.
The ATF (at the moment) will only approve an FFL applicant if you state your intention is to actively engage in the business of dealing firearms.  How they weigh FFL transfers only versus actual sales, I do not know.

If zoning is your only concern, you need to contact the zoning office and get specific guidance.  For instance, you might be fine from a "gun sales" definition, but is there a school nearby? 

I have a Class 03, which actually bars me from being a dealer.  I have no direct experience with the other FFL types.

 :shaka:

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

suka

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 07:26:13 PM »
We have a FFL 01 and a SOT 3

maybe picking up  SOT 1 / FFL  07
This allows the manufacture of NEW Machine Guns for  possession and sales.

841gun

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 10:30:26 PM »
Ive tried it don't do it

mauidog

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2016, 10:40:22 PM »
Ive tried it don't do it

I guess that answers all of your questions!??   :geekdanc:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 08:05:13 PM »
I wonder if you turn down the residence claim on your home that you could then consider it a business? You would lose your tax benefit of course.

Does the place of business for the FFL have to be the same place that the firearms are stored? For example, lets say the business is done at a rented out portion of a friend's business but no actual firearms are stored there?

dustoff003

Re: Home Based FFL Possible?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2016, 10:28:28 PM »

I wonder if you turn down the residence claim on your home that you could then consider it a business? You would lose your tax benefit of course.

Does the place of business for the FFL have to be the same place that the firearms are stored? For example, lets say the business is done at a rented out portion of a friend's business but no actual firearms are stored there?

I am not gonna jack you up about googling but the atf.gov site FFL faq's cover this and many other questions.