Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA (Read 28500 times)

hvybarrels

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 11:32:28 AM »
Honestly I don't know enough about the organization one way or another. I was a member but it's probably expired by now with no reminder. Same with HDF.

Just so happens right now I'm working with an unrelated group, but they have similar issues even though they are a brand new startup versus an established brand.

One of the first mistakes people make in terms of advocacy is mistaking Outreach as a secondary concern. You can do the most important work in he world but if nobody knows about it then your enemies have a much easier time burying you. For advocacy groups Outreach is job number one but time and again I see it being treated like an afterthought. If you have a great product but your customer service sucks then it creates a very tight bottleneck that restricts your growth potential. That doesn't mean go out and make a bunch of empty promises (see below), but keeping people engaged in the process is essential if you want lasting results.

The second is that Public Relations campaigns should be handled by professionals, or at least by people who respect how important they are and will carefully consider how each decision will either bring them closer to their goal or move them farther away from it. The whole "six lawyer team" Gerwig quote may give people some warm fuzzies upfront, but with no follow-through it's like Pat Caldwell throwing out fake numbers while demanding more and more rail money. His credibility is gone and the HART brand is now politically toxic.

Probably the last thing I'd recommend is finding new blood. We live in a culture of senile elitists who have cut off access for everyone lower on the pyramid to join the Big Boy Club and play with the high rollers, and as a result our civilization is collapsing. It's a terrible organizational model to copy. New blood and new ideas are necessary to adapt to the changing world around us. What can't adapt dies. I'm pretty sure that's one of the laws of nature somewhere.
Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

Gordyf

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 06:01:05 PM »
I know Mr Gerwig personally, and the fact that he has not gone running off into the sunset screaming "screw all you people" is a testament to his dedication.
He means well and with the help, not snarky indifference, of the local shooting community is trying to do what is workable for us.
Yes the group could be promoted better, but you guys gotta get off ur butts and join. Yes the NRA could represent us better, but why?
Just read this forum. Everyone here should be a member of both organizations... or GOA or SAF or (D) all of the above.
If you don't participate, Quit grumbling.
Hvybarrels you are right. Professional lobbying is expensive, but worth it.
Aloha... I think
Aloha
Gordy

oldfart

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 06:29:39 PM »
I know Mr Gerwig personally, and the fact that he has not gone running off into the sunset screaming "screw all you people" is a testament to his dedication.
He means well and with the help, not snarky indifference, of the local shooting community is trying to do what is workable for us.
Yes the group could be promoted better, but you guys gotta get off ur butts and join. Yes the NRA could represent us better, but why?
Just read this forum. Everyone here should be a member of both organizations... or GOA or SAF or (D) all of the above.
If you don't participate, Quit grumbling.
Hvybarrels you are right. Professional lobbying is expensive, but worth it.
Aloha... I think
...
Yeah that's about it. I try to help HRA as much as possible, but my work schedule sucks.
Harvey is a great guy.
What, Me Worry?

London808

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 06:43:23 PM »
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

punaperson

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 06:53:00 PM »
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.

Also, if they have 84,000 members and get 8 testimony submissions in response to their email alerts... well, that's beyond sad...

London808

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 07:38:47 PM »
That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.

Also, if they have 84,000 members and get 8 testimony submissions in response to their email alerts... well, that's beyond sad...

Their e-mail alrets look like spam e-mails so chances are they are ignored,  They ahve 2 facebook pages the most likled one with a little over 1k likes, They have no social media presence that is worthwhile and everything they share is just copy past stuff.

"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

zippz

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 09:08:53 PM »
If Zippz nuummber of 0.06% of the population of Hawaii being a member is correct/accurate that puts their income (@$25 per year) at around $200k.
Not 6%, it's 0.06% which is 1,000 members and about $25,000 a year.  Probably less due to people having lifetime memberships and some new members get free intro memberships.  Assume over half of that goes towards expenses, equipment, insurance, etc, then they would have $5,000 to $10,000 a year to work with.

Their e-mail alrets look like spam e-mails so chances are they are ignored,  They ahve 2 facebook pages the most likled one with a little over 1k likes, They have no social media presence that is worthwhile and everything they share is just copy past stuff.

That's what you get when old guys are trying to figure out how to run the social media campaign.

That would pay for 1/5 of a Wayne LaPierre, or 1/4 of a Chris Cox... though I suspect the HRA paid positions don't even remotely compare to the NRA salaries.

I don't think there are any paid positions.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 09:15:01 PM by zippz »

zippz

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2017, 09:21:26 PM »
Would it be unfair or mean or trollish or something else bad of me to ask, "Step WHAT up?"? Maybe there's been something going on here in Puna all along and I just didn't/don't know about it.

Communications problem or non-existant program.  I'm going to assume they're active in the hunting community since there's a lot of that going on there.  They do run a Friends of the NRA banquet there.  I'll learn more on my next trip there.

zippz

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2017, 09:38:04 PM »

2) does HRA do this type of shooting? Sports fair, you have to pay to rent. So more for non-owners, not current gun owners.
They do shooting sessions with LIFE.  They appeal to new shooters, instructor development, and event projects along with socials.  Other groups fill in the gaps.  HDF fills in with intermediate training.  The USPSA and Chinese Gun clubs appeal to the high end competitive shooters.  So you can go from first time shooter, intermediate training, competitive shooters, and instructor at Koko Head if you know how to navigate your way around the different clubs.

3) seems like they dropped the ball on the rapback. Someone in HRA should have been aware of the proposal b4 it was to late. London raised funds alone, if 1 man can do this, why cant an organization?
HRA did announce it when it was proposed.  Lack of communication and participation played a big part.  Not sure how they fund raise for things like this.

4) were they around when hawaii made registration manditory? If they were, what did they do to help prevent this and other 2a infrinents (mag limits, ccw denials, barrel length, etc...)
I dunno, hope some of the old timers can answer this.  I was one of those clueless peeple when this happened.  I assume the same reasons that RAPBACK was passed.

5) i know the above cost money, but i find it hard to believe that there isnt at least 1 attorney out there that could volunteer to help or trade services (if legal, firearm training for friends and family of atty, gun smithing, etc...). Or did HRA even contact the NRA for help because what happens in 1 state, others may follow.
NRA and other gun organizations refused to take the case.  Attorney's aren't going to take it for free unless they think they can win.

6) i wrote to my rep and he proposed a ccw bill HB36. Did HRA do anything like this?
They're sitting down with the representatives for things like this, though a lot of them go nowhere.

London808

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2017, 09:58:57 PM »
Not 6%, it's 0.06% which is 1,000 members and about $25,000 a year.  Probably less due to people having lifetime memberships and some new members get free intro memberships.  Assume over half of that goes towards expenses, equipment, insurance, etc, then they would have $5,000 to $10,000 a year to work with.

That's what you get when old guys are trying to figure out how to run the social media campaign.

I don't think there are any paid positions.

I went with 1.3 million as the population, 1% would be 13000, 1/2 percent would be 6500

6500 x 25 = $162k



The whole old guys thing is self inflicted as I stated before, old boys club.

Like most things in Hawaii, some times it's not with trying to rebuild. It's easier to start over
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

punaperson

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 06:02:37 AM »
I went with 1.3 million as the population, 1% would be 13000, 1/2 percent would be 6500
Not .6% (or rounding to .5% ("1/2 percent"))... .06% (or rounding to .05... 1/20 of a percent) = 650 members x $25 = $16,250

zippz, where'd you get that .06%? And, just out of curiosity, do you have a number for "gun owners" in the state?

I know I've heard Chuck Michel, the head of the law firm handling many NRA/Calguns lawsuits in California say that he estimates 10 million gun owners in California, and that if even just 10% of those, one million, would become "active", that they could control the legislature/county sheriff elections/mayoral elections/police chief appointments and rid California of all the draconian anti-gun laws that exist there. It appears "gun owners" may not be particularly inclined to be "active", and Hawaii may be even "worse" than California.

Inspector

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2017, 07:10:09 AM »
I am a member of the HRA and the HDF as well as the NRA. I like supporting the local organizations even though I don't usually take advantage of what they offer.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

PalisadesKid

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2017, 09:29:14 AM »
I am a member, but one thing that sticks out to me is first impressions and by that I mean the first impression I get when I first visited their website to learn more and the website, like many organizations in Hawaii, is seldom updated and is very “sterile”. I understand the HRA is made up of volunteers with full time jobs/careers, but when looking to donate or join to help a cause, the presentation of online materials is important IMHO, especially when it comes to attracting “younger” potential members.

Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more. The more it’s out there, the better and it can’t “hurt”.

I’m relatively new to the 2A community as a whole, but again this is just what I first see. Still trying to "navigate" the scene so to speak.


oldfart

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2017, 11:26:50 AM »
I am a member, but one thing that sticks out to me is first impressions and by that I mean the first impression I get when I first visited their website to learn more and the website, like many organizations in Hawaii, is seldom updated and is very “sterile”. I understand the HRA is made up of volunteers with full time jobs/careers, but when looking to donate or join to help a cause, the presentation of online materials is important IMHO, especially when it comes to attracting “younger” potential members.

Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more. The more it’s out there, the better and it can’t “hurt”.

I’m relatively new to the 2A community as a whole, but again this is just what I first see. Still trying to "navigate" the scene so to speak.
...
I think you are right.
What, Me Worry?

hvybarrels

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2017, 12:04:25 PM »

Sometimes, as shallow as it may seem, the presentation can draw people. Perhaps the HRA would benefit from utilizing social media more.

It's not shallow at all. The number one job of a group like this is to get the message out so that people can join up and help do something about it. Managing all the new interest is another skill entirely, but there's no point in trying to play the political game without an active and mobilized membership.
Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

hepcat96821

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2017, 12:12:16 PM »
As others have said I know of them.  I don't know who they are, what they do, or where the money for membership goes. 

aieahound

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 01:27:31 PM »
This kind of soured me to the HRA

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=6791.20

Them submitting Legislative testimony opposing a stronger Castle Doctrine when almost all us supported it. (At least supported with amendment)

To me, Hawaii's Castle Doctrine is so thin and sucks as written.
legislation was presented to strengthen it and HRA (and LIFE) both submitted testimony opposing the new legislation, basically putting the issue to bed as it stands.

Personally, for me, a strong Castle Doctrine is as important, if not more important, as CCW.
And HRA basically testified AGAINST the testifying firearm community.

Old Guy

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2017, 09:35:22 PM »
Precisely the Reason the Wife and I LEFT Hawaii.

The majority of gun owners We have met and talked to have little or no interest in joining the HRA

Many are millennials with a "ME" attitude.

They're not in it for the long run, instant gratification.

Given the number of guns Registered,

there "should" be enough New gun owners who "should" join the HRA and inject new blood and money.

But they don't.

Some I have talked to don't see anything wrong with registration, rap back etc.

They do Not see it as an erosion of their "Rights"

or they just don't CARE enough.

Since we have been in Texas, No One we have met are anti 2A.

The Texas Rangers, Game Wardens and police we've met are ALL Pro 2A.

When told about things in Hawaii, their response is "NOT here in Texas",

We live outside City Limits but still in town.

We hear gunfire all the time. (Sept 1, Opening Day dove season)

Guns are Sold openly at flea markets.

Wife and I will be going to 2 gun shows one week apart in the same town.

The only time a gun is "registered" is if bought from a FFL/Dealer.

NO Registration on Private face to face sales.

While back, Governor of Texas has told Feds to keep out of Texas.

Texas gun owners have Political Power.

If you want to move to Texas, We will Welcome you.

changemyoil66

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2017, 09:20:56 AM »
This kind of soured me to the HRA

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=6791.20

Them submitting Legislative testimony opposing a stronger Castle Doctrine when almost all us supported it. (At least supported with amendment)

To me, Hawaii's Castle Doctrine is so thin and sucks as written.
legislation was presented to strengthen it and HRA (and LIFE) both submitted testimony opposing the new legislation, basically putting the issue to bed as it stands.

Personally, for me, a strong Castle Doctrine is as important, if not more important, as CCW.
And HRA basically testified AGAINST the testifying firearm community.

A true castle doctrine will also make you immune from civil liability and ability to protect your property.  Hawaii's a "modified castle" doctrine that states in your home or business, you don't have a duty to retreat and that's it. 

I think Nevada passed a bill that the castle extends to your vehicle.  So if someone car jacks you and is inside your car, it's open season.

Maybe we can try and push for that the next session.  I'm new to the culture so only brought up CCW to my rep, not castle doctrine.

London808

Re: Why are/aren't you a member of the HRA
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2017, 05:40:21 PM »
Heres something else that i bought up previouslt,

HRA has 16 members on its board of directos (for some reason the list is not on their website but can be found here https://web.archive.org/web/20161012062812/http://hawaiirifleassociation.org/about-hra/board-of-directors/ )

BUT they cant even get all 16 of those to give testimony.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016