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Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock (Read 21280 times)

Heavies

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2017, 01:44:58 PM »
Whitehouse, NRA, Congress agree.  Bump fire stocks are to be regulated. 

Will there be any pro gun concessions?  Probably not.
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shdws

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 01:57:06 PM »
At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem".  However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people.  If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape.  I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 02:09:34 PM »
Quote from: shdws on October 05, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem".  However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people.  If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape. I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.

It already is.  Read a survey from CNN that correlates ban on "high capacity mags" with lower mass shooting rates.  Admits there is no causal relationship, but the headline is all people normally see.

It doesn't go into detail whether the mag limits have been ignored by mass shooters in, say, California.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/gun-laws-magazines-las-vegas/index.html
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

surfmaster

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 04:10:59 PM »
Watching concert goers run for their lives while being shot at was truly terrifying and we all feel for the victims on that horrible day. We’re all praying for the victims and their families.

Banning bump fire stocks is a logical choice for Congress and even the NRA. Congress wants to show the public that the government is “doing something” about the issue. The NRA is being strategic in supporting this proposal to show it is willing to play ball now to avoid possible bigger restrictions in the future.

The bump fire stocks used by the shooter did allow the shooter to get off more rounds versus not having these devices. It also made an already bad situation even worse by creating simulated machine-gun like fire that strikes even more fear, both during and after the tragedy.

However, in my humble opinion, the shooter would have caused more carnage if he did NOT use bump fire stocks with his rifles. Experienced shooters know that well-aimed shots are more effective than quickly fired shots. The perp was also firing at a distance of about 1,100 feet, more than 300 yards. The unsteadiness caused by the bump fire stocks most likely reduced his accuracy, possibly resulting in less casualties. If he had taken slower, well-aimed shots, the loss of life may have been greater.

Banning bump fire stocks is misplaced but the obvious choice, given this situation. Yet, we all know it will not stop future events like this from happening. The shooter’s girlfriend reported the perp would wake up in the middle of night screaming, making mental illness a possible factor. A step in the right direction would be to make the treatment of mental illness of priority in this country. However, it’s easier to pass gun/product bans than to look at the root cause of these crimes.
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Bunker

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
Quote from: shdws on October 05, 2017, 01:57:06 PM
At this point, knowing everything that we know, banning anything isnt going to solve the "problem".  However, I'm not so naive to think that the rest of the world is full of logical and reasonable people.  If we escape this debacle with a slap-on-the-wrist ban of these gimmicks, we'll be in decent shape.  I'll start to get nervous once the "ban high capacity magazine" war drum starts beating.
I could care less about slide stocks but that's not the point. It's the person and not the device! This guy could have easily used a semi-auto AR15 and several high capacity mags and wiped out a mass of people before he was subdued. Then it would have been high capacity mags, or AR15 ban, or assault weapon ban, you name it. They take slide stocks and open the door to the weapons that use slide stocks, and why not triggers...match triggers, binary triggers, light triggers, and then of course high capacity mags and drums. It can go on and on. Any chip in our 2A rights is caving in to the antis and liberal agenda to restrict and ultimately amend or get rid of the 2A. And these liberals don't just want to change the 2A...they want them all.
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shdws

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2017, 04:29:31 PM »
Quote from: Bunker on October 05, 2017, 04:15:14 PM
I could care less about slide stocks but that's not the point. It's the person and not the device!

I know this.  You know this.  But Joe Public and his representative isn't going to see it like that and thats just the world we live in.

Funny thing is, the people I've been talking to (non gun guys) are freaking out about bumpstock rifles yet suddenly they start thinking concealed handguns are OK for protection. 
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Bunker

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2017, 04:48:19 PM »
Quote from: shdws on October 05, 2017, 04:29:31 PM
I know this.  You know this.  But Joe Public and his representative isn't going to see it like that and thats just the world we live in.

Funny thing is, the people I've been talking to (non gun guys) are freaking out about bumpstock rifles yet suddenly they start thinking concealed handguns are OK for protection.
I'm not so sure about that. We won the white house, we have the senate and we have congress. A lot of voters see it different but the problem is the MSM is liberal, so they control the agenda being spun. There never is a compromise, the gun guys always lose. The NRA surely won't do anything, after all they supported NFA '34 and GCA '68. To me it's the principle regarding our 2A rights and has nothing to do with the add on accessory(s). So what happens when the next guy does something with a AR15 with high capacity mags? You can bet this will get reignited and they will want something else banned or regulated. We can't even get a universal concealed carry. More worst, whatever doesn't happen at the federal level, our state will be sure they catch it and give us the shaft if they can. Just my two cents....
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rklapp

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2017, 04:51:33 PM »
Quote from: zippz on October 05, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
A bump fire stock will shoot almost as fast as an automatic rifle, about 800 rounds per minute.
A pro shooter like Miculek can shoot around 400 rounds per minute, maybe 300 with a regular trained shooter.
A bump fire stock can fire like that for hundreds or thousands of rounds at that rate.
A shooter pressing the trigger can keep that rate for maybe 30 rounds with a light trigger.
It's interesting that the bump stock was less accurate.
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Rocky

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2017, 05:26:12 PM »
Quote from: zippz on October 05, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
"A bump fire stock will shoot almost as fast as an automatic rifle, about 800 rounds per minute."
     Actually, the bumpfire stock was passed as legal because it could put out no more than 400 rnds per minute, the very  classification of a full auto firearm.

Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on October 05, 2017, 09:21:19 AM
"The NRA says the BATFE needs to revisit the Bump Fire Stock ruling and see if it truly conforms to the law.  They believe it should be more strictly regulated, similar to other accessories/modifications that change the functionality of the weapon."
    The "NRA is calling for ATF to REVIEW whether these devices comply with Federal Law." (see bumpfire stock rof above)
I see no NOTHING where "They  (NRA) believe it should be more strictly regulated, but  rather "subject to additional regulations".
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
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zippz

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2017, 05:49:40 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on October 05, 2017, 05:26:12 PM
     Actually, the bumpfire stock was passed as legal because it could put out no more than 400 rnds per minute, the very  classification of a full auto firearm.

I didn't know there was a rate for it.  The ATF tested the stock wrong or the manufacturer modified the stock after the review.  In the Miculek video, it appears he fired 10 rounds in about 0.8 seconds for a rate of 750 rounds per minute.
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ren

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2017, 06:00:57 PM »
The bum stock is a novelty. How many of you own them? How often do you use them? Do you have it on your go-to TEOTWAWKI gun?
I don't think it matters. What we have here is a sick individual. We've relegated our thought processes to that of a child as we continue to blame a tool rather than a person. One day box cutters (which was used in the process of killing thousands) another day bump stocks. This is why we need a time to mourn and let emotions subside before we legislate ourselves to ridiculousness.
There is always that question of "How can we prevent this from happening again?" That in itself is a loaded question. One person mind as well use a crystal ball because NONE of us can predict what people will do. To think we have the ability to shape a person's behavior is hubris. What we can do to prevent this is to empower the people. Allow CCW.
This guy obviously was a coward as he killed himself before an encounter with armed responders - that in itself tells us that a CCW holder would have had a chance with this guy.


I hope the NRA ties this to the SHARE act. They should be smart enough to influence that.
Because the people who want this piece of plastic banned want ALL GUNS BANNED. That is their goal. Much as what some groups asked for "tolerance" decades ago.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 06:10:15 PM by ren »
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Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2017, 06:03:31 PM »
Quote from: zippz on October 05, 2017, 01:35:21 PM
Another bump fire video, without the stock.


They may make "shouldering" a rifle legal.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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PeaShooter

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2017, 06:11:13 PM »
Maybe the bump fire rate can vary somewhat with the strength or skill of the person using it, or the resistance/tuning of the stock.
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Bunker

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2017, 06:18:32 PM »
Quote
WASHINGTON — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi conceded Thursday that members supporting gun control want more than just a bill to ban the “bump stock” firearm accessory that the Las Vegas shooter used to rapidly fire bullets at a crowd of concert-goers.

“There are going to be Republicans who resist this because they say, ‘Give the gun control people an inch and they’ll try to take a mile,'” a reporter asked Pelosi at a press conference. “So how do you plan to overcome that when the truth is that you would like to go further?”

“So what?” Pelosi responded. “They’re going to say, ‘You give them bump stock, it’s going to be a slippery slope.’ I certainly hope so. But I don’t think bump stock should be a substitute for the background check. By the way the background check is a compromise. There are many more things members want to do, and we’re saying, ‘How do we save the most lives?’ We save the most lives with a background check.”
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/05/pelosi-hopes-for-slippery-slope-on-gun-regulations/
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Bunker

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2017, 07:12:31 PM »
A lot of NRA supporters are pulling away from the organization over their willingness to concede on this one. I've been a member and supported the NRA since I was a young adult and frankly, they have disappointed me on many occasions but I could only imagine how bad things could be if they didn't exist. Not taking sides one way or the other regarding the NRA's overall importance and value, but in this case, IMO they should not concede on this issue, nor should Trump or the republicans. 

Quote
Military Arms Channel: Effective Immediately: I withdraw my support for the NRA until further notice. I have suspended all support and recruiting efforts. The next couple of videos I have are already edited and have a request for you to join. Please ignore that request. I am currently traveling but will remove the link in my future videos to the NRA website. I will be speaking with NRA leadership soon (hopefully) and if their position is to negotiate in any way whatsoever with anti-gun forces my future support will end and I will resign my membership. https://www.facebook.com/militaryarm...2hMB1w&fref=nf


Mr. GunsnGear's take on it and some of the rights we have conceded (not compromised) and the presidents promise during his NRA speech:

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ren

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2017, 07:42:22 PM »
I don't think leaving the NRA is a good answer. It's obvious that ONE organization strikes fear in most Democrats that want to take guns away from us. A leadership change? Yes. But don't dwindle our membership numbers. They are dividing us.
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Deeds Not Words

Bunker

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2017, 07:46:40 PM »
Quote from: ren on October 05, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
I don't think leaving the NRA is a good answer. It's obvious that ONE organization strikes fear in most Democrats that want to take guns away from us. A leadership change? Yes. But don't dwindle our membership numbers. They are dividing us.
I agree! I've been disappointed in them several times but they are the only real voice we have and like you said, they do fear them. One thing about liberals and democrats is they will always band together, even if they disagree, whereas republicans tear each other apart and nothing gets done, just like health care.
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ren

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2017, 07:53:37 PM »
let's hope for a real compromise.
Ban this stock but open it up for nation wide suppressor legalization and CCW. :thumbsup:
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Deeds Not Words

stangzilla

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2017, 08:07:13 PM »
I don't think we should just give up bump fire stocks
We should at least get national reciprocity in a deal for the bump fire stocks
If we give up something, we should get something in return
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Heavies

Re: Las Vegas shooter used a bump fire stock
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2017, 12:58:05 AM »
Quote from: Bunker on October 05, 2017, 07:12:31 PM
A lot of NRA supporters are pulling away from the organization over their willingness to concede on this one. I've been a member and supported the NRA since I was a young adult and frankly, they have disappointed me on many occasions but I could only imagine how bad things could be if they didn't exist. Not taking sides one way or the other regarding the NRA's overall importance and value, but in this case, IMO they should not concede on this issue, nor should Trump or the republicans. 
Mr. GunsnGear's take on it and some of the rights we have conceded (not compromised) and the presidents promise during his NRA speech:



Only one winner here...

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