CCU carbine conversion upper (Read 6616 times)

Seth2son

CCU carbine conversion upper
« on: November 11, 2017, 01:41:58 PM »
Anybody seen this

http://mechtechsys.com/

It converts your glock/1911/XD Family pistol into a 16” semi automatic carbine. It’s a complete upper and according to the article can be shipped directly to your house no FFL required. The CCU is not a firearm and requires no special licensing to purchase. Under federal law (BATFE) it is perfectly legal to install a pistol lower and then remove the lower and reassemble the pistol.

Any legal issues in Hawaii to own? Thoughts?
Does this fall under AR pistol laws?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 02:38:11 PM by Seth2son »

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 02:44:47 PM »
No problems, any barrel over 16" is fine , even an assault pistol.


"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:
....................but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length,

Seth2son

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 05:52:41 PM »
Would there be a need to register as both a rifle and a pistol?

London808

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 06:13:00 PM »
Would there be a need to register as both a rifle and a pistol?

#NotTouchingThisOne
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 09:25:38 PM »
Handgun / Pistol



Once its registered as a rifle it can't go back to a Handgun.
A Handgun may have a barrel over 16" and then unassembled back to a Handgun with a barrel less than 16".


Make Sense? 


26 USC 5845(a) 3
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:31:57 PM by suka »

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 09:31:10 PM »
The ATF made the rule awhile ago under ATF 2011-4



The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests from individuals to classify pistols that are reconfigured into rifles, for personal use, through the addition of barrels, stocks, and other parts and then returned to a pistol configurationbyremovalofthosecomponents. Specifically,ATFhasbeenaskedto determine whether such a pistol, once returned to a pistol configuration from a rifle, becomes a “weapon made from a rifle” as defined under the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or re- assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length). Merely assembling and disassembling such a rifle does not result in the making of a new weapon; rather, it is the same rifle in a knockdown condition (i.e., complete as to all component parts). Likewise, because it is the same weapon when reconfigured as a pistol, no “weapon made from a rifle” subject to the NFA has been made.

London808

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 10:16:31 PM »
Handgun / Pistol



Once its registered as a rifle it can't go back to a Handgun.
A Handgun may have a barrel over 16" and then unassembled back to a Handgun with a barrel less than 16".


Make Sense? 


26 USC 5845(a) 3

But Hawaii state law says otherwise  ;D
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 10:19:50 PM »
Hawaii has no laws pertaining to conversion of a rifle into a pistol.

London808

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 10:30:04 PM »
Hawaii has no laws pertaining to conversion of a rifle into a pistol.

Anything with more the. 16 inches is a rifle, less then 16 is a pistol.  So pertaining to his question about registration,

Would he need a permit to acquire every time he put the barrel on or took it off.

Hawaiis gun laws are broken. Don't blame me
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Flapp_Jackson

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 11:31:22 PM »
Anything with more the. 16 inches is a rifle, less then 16 is a pistol.  So pertaining to his question about registration,

Would he need a permit to acquire every time he put the barrel on or took it off.

Hawaiis gun laws are broken. Don't blame me

I don't think you have that correct.  A rifle isn't defined by the length of it's barrel.  If it were, how could there be Short-Barrel Rifles of < 16"?

The designation of rifle or handgun is on the DD 4473, and it has nothing to do with barrel length.  In fact, you could be buying a receiver only without any barrel, and call it a handgun or a long gun, depending on how you intend to build it.

The short-barrel rifle is, however, illegal in Hawaii and controlled by the ATF as an NFA item.  There is no NFA restriction on "long-barrel handguns".

If you intended to build a handgun, but the gun shop checked "Long Gun" for your receiver, you can't legally use that lower for a pistol -- ever.


ATF Rule 2011-4

Quote
A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity
in such a way that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; or (b) convert
a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm. A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts within a kit that were
originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as
a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a
pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are
later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun
or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced
from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 08:43:24 AM »
Anything with more the. 16 inches is a rifle, less then 16 is a pistol.  So pertaining to his question about registration,

Would he need a permit to acquire every time he put the barrel on or took it off.

Hawaiis gun laws are broken. Don't blame me

Thats not how it works. But  I see how you are looking at the Hawaii law.
However it is how the receiver was FIRST designated on the 4473.
A rifle can never be registered as a Handgun ever.

A Rifle is still a Rifle regardless of its barrel length.
A Handgun may have a longer barrel.

London808

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 02:43:00 PM »
Thats not how it works. But  I see how you are looking at the Hawaii law.
However it is how the receiver was FIRST designated on the 4473.
A rifle can never be registered as a Handgun ever.

A Rifle is still a Rifle regardless of its barrel length.
A Handgun may have a longer barrel.
[/quot
As i said Hawaii's laws are broken. The only differential between a rifle and a pistol according to Hawaii law is the barrel length.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

London808

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 02:52:21 PM »
I don't think you have that correct.  A rifle isn't defined by the length of it's barrel.  If it were, how could there be Short-Barrel Rifles of < 16"?

"Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.

Your are right, Rifle is not defined in Hawaii law. Only pistols. Everything else is a firearm.   SBR's dont exist in Hawaii law because by legal definition they are pistols. Although defined in HRS 134-8
" The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited: assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches;"
They would not actually be rifles or shotguns with a short barrel as they are legally defined as PISTOLS.  Not that i want to test this one as possession is a class C felony.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

suka

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 05:40:47 PM »
"Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.

Your are right, Rifle is not defined in Hawaii law. Only pistols. Everything else is a firearm.   SBR's dont exist in Hawaii law because by legal definition they are pistols. Although defined in HRS 134-8
" The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited: assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches;"
They would not actually be rifles or shotguns with a short barrel as they are legally defined as PISTOLS.  Not that i want to test this one as possession is a class C felony.

TRUE, Thats how fucked up HPD is........
Also HPD cannot  enforce federal laws, and can only refer it over to the ATF.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: CCU carbine conversion upper
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 05:58:07 PM »
TRUE, Thats how fucked up HPD is........
Also HPD cannot  enforce federal laws, and can only refer it over to the ATF.

They aren't worried.  They just make it up as they go and excuse it as "policy."
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw