He also can't form a coherent response without using juvenile homophobic insults.

Aww how cute. You want to talk dirty but then come out crying when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine. Typical snowflake.

What would Russia have to gain from a destabilized USA?
We are the most significant threat to them militarily and economically.
Who else can wield as much influence over Russia?
Who funds much of NATO which stood/stands in opposition to potential military aggression from Russia?


So tell me, what is your theory as to why Russia would work to create this strife among American people?

I don't think Russia wants to destabilize the US.
I'm asking you those questions.
I understand you dislike Trump and I respect your opinion but reasoning and explanations go a long ways.

The Democrats in DC are batshit crazy!!

Yeah, most of us knew that, but they are getting stupider and stupider ...

I don't think Russia wants to destabilize the US.
I'm asking you those questions.
I understand you dislike Trump and I respect your opinion but reasoning and explanations go a long ways.

To me the actions they took appear to be to cause strife. They didn't appear to support one side only, there did not appear to be a concerted effort to get one side elected. Its consistent with the goal of destabilization. Maybe that is only part of some larger picture, I don't know, but from what we do know destabilization seems a plausible explanation.



I don't completely hate Trump, I am not on some mission against him or anything. Just recognizing where he is messing up.

1) I am not blind to what others have done worse, they just aren't the topic. At a murder trial is it a wise defense to point out that at least the accused didn't eat the people he killed?

2) I absolutely think Obama hurt race relations in this country more than he helped, but he isn't president anymore. Trump is president now and he is saying stupid things and he should consider that criticism because we are stuck with him for 2.5 more years. He is the one now in power who will make a difference one way or another in those 2.5 years. We can chide Obama till we die but we can't change the past. With Trump at least we can hope for a better future with him. I am not playing a comparison game here.

3) I do argue from both sides because no single side has all the right answers. Sometimes democrats are right, sometimes republicans are right, and sometimes libertarians are right. I try to give credit where credit is due and criticism where it is due. Sometimes Trump deserves criticism and sometimes he deserves credit. Same with Obama and Bush, etc etc.

1) You tend to take off on tangents in your statements, so I figured I could do the same.  But since the Topic is Trump. . .

2) I was just saying that many folks, which I ass-umed (my apologies if you aren't one of those) you were just like, are filled with illogically blind Trump hate yet are like an opera singer when they they talk about praise for Obama.  It's your seemingly blind hate for Trump is where this is coming from.  Full of "I don't know if it will be good or bad, but I really don't like it" opinions without much fact or logical explanation.  Or at least usually.  Like Ren said, I respect your opinion.  But to have a logical conversation, one needs reason, not mostly emotion.

3) To be clear, I wasn't talking liberal vs conservative, democrats or republicans.  I couldn't care less about that. I care about what I feel is right and wrong and what is best for this country, and I believe (my opinion only) is while Trump comes off as a buffoon very often, what he is doing is ultimately improving America.  Or at least I believe his intentions are.  Actions speak louder than words.  Yes, I wish he would speak less.

Watching the  channel 3 morning news and there were 2 anti trump commercials.  Green and Chin both had commercials saying we need to fight Trump.

I wonder if in GOP states, when they had commercials, were they saying to fight Obama?

Isn't Green running for Lt. Governor?

How the hell would he fight Trump from that position ?
Jump on the anti-Trump wagon to persuade emotional voters who know nothing of real issues.

Chin gotta do the same to make up for lost ground in the polls.

I'll be surprised if that's not a question in future debates:  What's your stance on fighting Trump?
On Political issues, many voters in this state are blind voters. Party line or, hey, I recognize that name.
Not surprised anti-Trump is now a campaign slogan here.

What a bunch of hypocrytical cry babies. Anti-Trump BS. They weren't singing that tune when they asked the Federal govt. for money and disaster declaration.

Isn't Green running for Lt. Governor?

How the hell would he fight Trump from that position ?
Jump on the anti-Trump wagon to persuade emotional voters who know nothing of real issues.

Chin gotta do the same to make up for lost ground in the polls.

I'll be surprised if that's not a question in future debates:  What's your stance on fighting Trump?
On Political issues, many voters in this state are blind voters. Party line or, hey, I recognize that name.
Not surprised anti-Trump is now a campaign slogan here.

The question should be "what specific reason do you have for fighting Trump and provide details."

Chin: I want to protect DACA kids
Moderator: Aren't you an attorney, doesn't the bill of rights state to follow "immigration laws".  XO's are not laws.
Chin: *silence. Trump is racist.

3) To be clear, I wasn't talking liberal vs conservative, democrats or republicans.  I couldn't care less about that. I care about what I feel is right and wrong and what is best for this country, and I believe (my opinion only) is while Trump comes off as a buffoon very often, what he is doing is ultimately improving America.  Or at least I believe his intentions are.  Actions speak louder than words.  Yes, I wish he would speak less.

Agree with this statement. 

We all know Trump says inane things at times. It is what he is actually doing that we need to hold him to. And so far his actions have spoken much to what he promised he would do. It is too bad that the MSM (and some here) are spending all of their time whining about what he says. Instead they should worry about his actions. Well, actually I think they are worried about his actions because life has become much better for most of us due to Trump’s actions. And the hatred they show towards Trump shows due to this. It is a valid point to complain about his words. But to concentrate only on that is disingenuous, misleading and intellectually dishonest IMHO.

Added after I posted:
What Trump says and what he does are two different things at times. It is hard to trust someone like this. However, I see the method to his madness. I wish more would see what I do. I don’t like some of what he says. But I also realize that putting too much emphasis on only one aspect of the entire picture is not productive and would make me look like I am just whining about one small aspect of the big picture due to my intense hatred towards Trump. Again JMHO

That's kinda funny because part of Trump's effectiveness is that he is dishonest intellectually.

I had to laugh at a MSM article that complained about Trump's Europe trip and holding NATO's feet to the fire saying it was exactly as he promised during his campaign.
He is a terrible politician because tries to keep his campaign promises?
Illegal immigration, Trade Deficit, etc.

I initially called him an idiot.
I stand corrected.
He's dishonest intellectually and a boor.

That says nothing about his effectiveness though.
He's the opposite of Ariyoshi's "Quiet but effective"
He should campaign on "loud, boorish but effective"

Remember when trump said we need more gun control. Met with feinstein and all. Huge press conference. Nothing came about it. ATF did nothing.

Trump calling out NATO nations for not paying. Many starting paying now. Total so far 3 billion toward Nato.

So i do agree he is never polticially correct, but he gets shit done. I rather have that, than a talker. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

As we discovered in Helsinki, we need to assume that he intends to add the word “not” to the end of every sentence.

As we discovered in Helsinki, we need to assume that he intends to add the word “not” to the end of every sentence.

Enter Borat not....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

1) You tend to take off on tangents in your statements, so I figured I could do the same.  But since the Topic is Trump. . .

2) I was just saying that many folks, which I ass-umed (my apologies if you aren't one of those) you were just like, are filled with illogically blind Trump hate yet are like an opera singer when they they talk about praise for Obama.  It's your seemingly blind hate for Trump is where this is coming from.  Full of "I don't know if it will be good or bad, but I really don't like it" opinions without much fact or logical explanation.  Or at least usually.  Like Ren said, I respect your opinion.  But to have a logical conversation, one needs reason, not mostly emotion.

3) To be clear, I wasn't talking liberal vs conservative, democrats or republicans.  I couldn't care less about that. I care about what I feel is right and wrong and what is best for this country, and I believe (my opinion only) is while Trump comes off as a buffoon very often, what he is doing is ultimately improving America.  Or at least I believe his intentions are.  Actions speak louder than words.  Yes, I wish he would speak less.

I praised Obama when he did something good, defended him when I thought criticism was unfair, and spoke against him when I thought he did something bad. I do the exact same with Trump. Perhaps unfortunately Trump just says so many more stupid things that you just see the criticism more often. What I don't like is inconsistency in judgement. I prefer people on my side as well as on the other to receive the same level of judgement for the same level of offense. Obama should not be praised for what Trump is condemned for and Trump should not be praised for what Obama was condemned for, simple as that. I think what happens is that given the right leaning nature of this forum the arguments tend to lean more against those on the left, therefore I think we see more attacks I would characterize as inaccurate or unfair that I speak out about. Not so many liberals here making unfair Trump attacks that need rebutting.

When I say things like "I don't know if it will turn out good or bad" I am making allowances for my lack of knowledge in an area. In this case it was about trade wars. From everything I had seen and read it appeared to be a bad move on his part, but to be honest and objective I also recognize that there is a possibility of a different outcome, that maybe Trump could succeed somehow.

I think if Trump were mute and didn't have twitter he would be a pretty decent president. I like his tax cuts, I like his supreme court appointments and strongly disagree with some of his other decisions. But when he says things like Russia didn't hack us because Putin told me so I can't help but face palm. I think it makes us conservatives look stupid when we squirm trying to find a way to justify or defend one of his foolish statements.

Serious question though, when Trump makes a statement that dumb, what am I supposed to think about his critical thinking skills or intelligence? How do I defend such a statement against a liberal? At best I can hope for is some type of mental condition that screws up his words even though his thought process is sound.

If Trump didn't have Twitter or some other mechanism to bypass the MSM, Hillary would be President, and none of the crimes committed by the FBI/DOJ would ever be known outside of the highest circles.

The media is a filter for news, especially politics. We aren't getting his messages filtered by them, and they can't stand it.  He trolls the media, Democrats and anyone else who use their bully pulpit to attack him.

We're seeing a change in the way government transparency is implemented. I like it much better than bald face lies with no whistleblowers running to the media.  The VA scandal went on for 4 years after Obama promised in his first campaign to fix that broken system.  It took a whistleblower to uncover 12+ month-long waits for some while the managers got huge cash bonuses for turning in fake waitlist data.  It took Trump to actually fix it.

I look at the critical things he's doing, and he's getting almost every one of the right the first time. The little stuff like calling Congressional Democrats and Kim Jong Un names is minor. Sticks & stones ...

If Trump didn't have Twitter or some other mechanism to bypass the MSM, Hillary would be President, and none of the crimes committed by the FBI/DOJ would ever be known outside of the highest circles.

The media is a filter for news, especially politics. We aren't getting his messages filtered by them, and they can't stand it.  He trolls the media, Democrats and anyone else who use their bully pulpit to attack him.

We're seeing a change in the way government transparency is implemented. I like it much better than bald face lies with no whistleblowers running to the media.  The VA scandal went on for 4 years after Obama promised in his first campaign to fix that broken system.  It took a whistleblower to uncover 12+ month-long waits for some while the managers got huge cash bonuses for turning in fake waitlist data.  It took Trump to actually fix it.

I look at the critical things he's doing, and he's getting almost every one of the right the first time. The little stuff like calling Congressional Democrats and Kim Jong Un names is minor. Sticks & stones ...

^^^This.  Twitter helped a lot for Trump to get elected.  Because the GOP doesn't control the media.  I'm surprised no one stepped up to boycott Twitter or stuff like that.  I wonder who they know.  I enjoy his tweets, because they are tweeted like an everyday Joe.  Not PC at all.

I praised Obama when he did something good, defended him when I thought criticism was unfair, and spoke against him when I thought he did something bad. I do the exact same with Trump. Perhaps unfortunately Trump just says so many more stupid things that you just see the criticism more often. What I don't like is inconsistency in judgement. I prefer people on my side as well as on the other to receive the same level of judgement for the same level of offense. Obama should not be praised for what Trump is condemned for and Trump should not be praised for what Obama was condemned for, simple as that. 1) I think what happens is that given the right leaning nature of this forum the arguments tend to lean more against those on the left, therefore I think we see more attacks I would characterize as inaccurate or unfair that I speak out about. Not so many liberals here making unfair Trump attacks that need rebutting.

When I say things like "I don't know if it will turn out good or bad" I am making allowances for my lack of knowledge in an area. In this case it was about trade wars. From everything I had seen and read it appeared to be a bad move on his part, but to be honest and objective I also recognize that there is a possibility of a different outcome, that maybe Trump could succeed somehow.

I think if Trump were mute and didn't have twitter he would be a pretty decent president. I like his tax cuts, I like his supreme court appointments and strongly disagree with some of his other decisions. But when he says things like Russia didn't hack us because Putin told me so I can't help but face palm. I think it makes us conservatives look stupid when we squirm trying to find a way to justify or defend one of his foolish statements.

Serious question though, when Trump makes a statement that dumb, what am I supposed to think about his critical thinking skills or intelligence? 2) How do I defend such a statement against a liberal? At best I can hope for is some type of mental condition that screws up his words even though his thought process is sound.

1) I would say that I argue based on reason, being rational and logical.  I can't say for everyone else.  I will say that liberals tend to be emotional and irrational, at least IMO.

2) How would I defend statements to liberals?  I don't.  I approach it much in the same way I approach arguments with you or anyone else.  Based on facts, reason and logic and try to appreciate emotion, but not let it drive things to irrational.  Arguing with liberals and those on religion are similar where they take things to more of the extreme.  They take things beyond facts, reason and logic and tend to base things more on emotion and become irrational.  I used to have lengthy discussions with a former coworker from Syria, well before 9/11.  The key take away was how do you reason with someone who is unreasonable.  That's where the "feel like talking to a wall comes from". . .   

Agree with this statement. 

We all know Trump says inane things at times. It is what he is actually doing that we need to hold him to. And so far his actions have spoken much to what he promised he would do. It is too bad that the MSM (and some here) are spending all of their time whining about what he says. Instead they should worry about his actions. Well, actually I think they are worried about his actions because life has become much better for most of us due to Trump’s actions. And the hatred they show towards Trump shows due to this. It is a valid point to complain about his words. But to concentrate only on that is disingenuous, misleading and intellectually dishonest IMHO.

Added after I posted:
What Trump says and what he does are two different things at times. It is hard to trust someone like this. However, I see the method to his madness. I wish more would see what I do. I don’t like some of what he says. But I also realize that putting too much emphasis on only one aspect of the entire picture is not productive and would make me look like I am just whining about one small aspect of the big picture due to my intense hatred towards Trump. Again JMHO

That's what was getting at.  Folks are entitled to their opinions, but most criticism I see are so illogical.  It's "I hate Trump's policy/actions on _______".  Why? "Oh, because global warming".  I mean not that extreme in most cases, but it often is.  I just don't get the irrational fear that Trump inspires. 

I get what you're saying about hard to trust someone like that and I agree.  It is hard to justify his word to folks when I think many of his words are ill advised (to put it lightly).  If his actions and results weren't what I felt were positive, I'd be on the "F Trump" bandwagon too.  I do see a method to his madness when you look at his actions and results.  I also hope there's an orchestrated method to his madness in what he says that come off as just plain stupid.