So no, its not a "little frustration." 

That's definitely an uncommon amount of commitment you've made and I thank you for your efforts even though it wasn't in this state and didn't affect me directly at the time.

It does affect me as far as the intriguing story you just told. How often do we have a chance to peer behind the curtain and see how things really work? Your shared experience is extremely valuable not only because it informs us but there are probably plenty of other people out there who've had a similar experience and would love to join forces if they thought it was possible to make a difference.

People seem to get hung up on the idea of a once-and-for-all victory. Only very rarely does such an opportunity present itself, and far more important (especially in our position) is to learn the strategy of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Everything you do has an influence that goes far beyond what you are aware of in ways that you can't possibly understand. Maybe the next time someone tries to go up against the system they will be inspired by and learn from your efforts and manage to find victory, or at least inspire someone else that eventually does. Or maybe those politicians and organization leaders build their bad reputations to the point where they are unceremoniously dumped from their positions one day, freeing up resources and channels that were never anticipated.

Thanks for sharing and rest well knowing that you did make a difference after all!

HB 1908 AMENDMENTS POSTED:

Your Committee has amended this measure by narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups without inadvertently targeting simple trigger modifications that improve the performance or safety of firearms.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/CommReports/HB1908_HD1_HSCR597-18_.htm

No, that's the report from JUD (Nishimoto chair) from last week on 2/13. The "new version" will be HB1908 HD2. I was told "2 to 3 days" by CPC committee chair Talkumi's office from the 2/21 hearing... if true, today or Monday.

At the next town hall, someone should ask if a bill being proposed gets a 5 support and 100+ oppose, do they think the bill should go through to the next level?  Then after the answer, tell them how come 1908 & 2046 passed.  If they say yes it should still go, then ask at what number of oppose to support will be needed so a bill doesn't go on?

At the next town hall, someone should ask if a bill being proposed gets a 5 support and 100+ oppose, do they think the bill should go through to the next level?  Then after the answer, tell them how come 1908 & 2046 passed.  If they say yes it should still go, then ask at what number of oppose to support will be needed so a bill doesn't go on?

"This is not a democracy. This is a representative republic. If the public overwhelmingly supported the re-institution of slavery or "separate but equal" policies, or opposed "a woman's right to choose", or "equal rights to marriage by any two humans" it would be my ethical duty to vote for the rights of all people even if the majority opposed granting those people rights. Our system is not a democracy precisely to avoid a "tyranny of the majority". Now, as for banning bumpstocks, standard capacity handgun magazines, stun guns, the right to bear arms in public for self-defense, etc., and requiring people to register, be fingerprinted, photographed, and relinquish their right to privacy of medical records in order to exercise their right to keep and bear arms, etc., well, that's simple: "public safety"." Over and out.

That's definitely an uncommon amount of commitment you've made and I thank you for your efforts even though it wasn't in this state and didn't affect me directly at the time.

It does affect me as far as the intriguing story you just told. How often do we have a chance to peer behind the curtain and see how things really work? Your shared experience is extremely valuable not only because it informs us but there are probably plenty of other people out there who've had a similar experience and would love to join forces if they thought it was possible to make a difference.

People seem to get hung up on the idea of a once-and-for-all victory. Only very rarely does such an opportunity present itself, and far more important (especially in our position) is to learn the strategy of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Everything you do has an influence that goes far beyond what you are aware of in ways that you can't possibly understand. Maybe the next time someone tries to go up against the system they will be inspired by and learn from your efforts and manage to find victory, or at least inspire someone else that eventually does. Or maybe those politicians and organization leaders build their bad reputations to the point where they are unceremoniously dumped from their positions one day, freeing up resources and channels that were never anticipated.

Thanks for sharing and rest well knowing that you did make a difference after all!

Thanks,  I'm just venting because I told myself to not get involved again and here I am involved again and just as frustrating.  I think if people only knew how really broken the system is there would be a revolution.  Seeing it from the inside it was much worse than you think.  Like George Carlin said (I think):  "If voting mattered they would not let us do it" 

But I will keep up support.  I very much hope we get a public range on the big island because my volunteer efforts getting one made outside of Portland was so much more satisfying than trying to get a creep legislator recalled. 

Im seeing someone on Monday to give them a mental health clearance letter because no one on their island will do it.  Their story about the firearm permit denial is a terrible injustice the state has done to them.  But at least I have the power to fix it for that one person. 

I take this amendment that more narrowly defines what they're banning as a partial win. Without everyone's support, it undoubtably would have passe as originally worded... which can be interpreted as up to everyone in the state being a criminal.    You can bumpfire a rifle with pants with belt loops, therefore those are  "multiburst trigger activators".  The lawmakers obviously want to pass SOMETHING to win re election brownie points.  But are taking note of the overwhelming opposition, so continually redefine the bill.   

Has anyone ever wondered if we're being played by our reps?  Submit 1 really bad one so that we choose the lesser of 2 evils?  But only works in this blue state.  In a pro 2a state, all bills would be shut down.

No, that's the report from JUD (Nishimoto chair) from last week on 2/13. The "new version" will be HB1908 HD2. I was told "2 to 3 days" by CPC committee chair Talkumi's office from the 2/21 hearing... if true, today or Monday.

Oops. thanks for the clarification!

While waiting for the new amended version of HB1908, HD2, to be released to the public, likely tomorrow, I have to wonder what the changes will actually be.

The report on the 2/13 JUD committee amendment declared that it "has amended this measure by narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups without inadvertently targeting simple trigger modifications that improve the performance or safety of firearms."  All it really did was substitute the "mimics automatic gunfire" phrase for the "burst of fire" phrase. That was obviously not "narrowly defining" anything at all. How hard would it have been, if their goal was really to "narrowly defining "multiburst trigger activator" to include bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups" to amend the bill to literally ban "bump stocks and binary or echo trigger groups"? The thing is nonsensical on it's face. Given that the anecdotal reports about the newly amended HD2 by CPC are that they are going to "narrowly define" bumpstocks and echo trigger groups AGAIN, I have to wonder.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'm not expecting much "narrowing". I hope I'm wrong. 

Just called Takumi's office (chair of CPC that voted to amend the bill on 2/21) to ask about the newly amended version that isn't posted yet, and had been told on the 21st that it would be "2 to 3 days". Called (4:30PM) today, the third business day and was told they don't have it back yet, "it's complicated", and will probably be "2 or 3 more days".

How "complicated" could it be to make it clear that the bill only applies to bumpstocks and trigger cranks? Wouldn't that be something like "possessing bumpstocks or trigger cranks is illegal"? Of course that's what they said they were going to do in the JUD committee too, and they did nothing of the kind, not even remotely. 

Okay, it's 10 days now since the committee meeting on the 21st and when I was told the amended version of the bill would be up in "2 to 3 days". It's the fifth day since I called on the 26th and was told "2 to 3 days". Nothing. That must be some amendment!

Okay, it's 10 days now since the committee meeting on the 21st and when I was told the amended version of the bill would be up in "2 to 3 days". It's the fifth day since I called on the 26th and was told "2 to 3 days". Nothing. That must be some amendment!

I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.

LOL! (literally!) Gosh, I really hate to see that cynicism (reality?) coming from the guy that voluntarily spends his days in the bowel of the beast. That's scary. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they copied and pasted the federal assault weapons ban to it.

If they did, then there would be a higher percentage of a lawsuit.  Because that fed bill makes all guns illegal, but has a grandfather clause.

The new language of HB1908, HD2 just posted. We'll see later if the senate SB2046 really does copy this language.

 SECTION 1.  Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

     "§134-    Bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank; prohibition.  (a)  Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank shall be guilty of a class C felony.

     (b)  As used in this section:

     "Bump fire stock" means a butt stock designed to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm and designed, made, or altered to increase the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.

     "Multiburst trigger activator" means:

     (1)  A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or

     (2)  A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire.

     "Trigger crank" means any device to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever."

   

At least this bill sounds a whole lot better than the original 2046 "anything that can increase the rate of fire".

IDK if I call this a win, but it could have ended way worst.

At least this bill sounds a whole lot better than the original 2046 "anything that can increase the rate of fire".

IDK if I call this a win, but it could have ended way worst.

Yeah, it sounds a lot better.  Still, anything that limits rights is not a "win" in reality, although I do agree with you.

#1 of their "multiburst trigger activator" sounds like it's defining a  multiple round burst, which is automatic fire.... One pull and release of trigger, multiple rounds per trigger pull.

So they're banning bump stocks, binary triggers, and any devices that would fire multiple rounds per trigger pull (which I'm not sure exists, except for automatic weapons).  Even bump fire stocks and binary triggers are activating the trigger multiple times, hence legal even with the pre 1986 automatic weapon ban.

The new language of HB1908, HD2 just posted. We'll see later if the senate SB2046 really does copy this language.

 SECTION 1.  Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

     "§134-    Bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank; prohibition.  (a)  Any person in this State who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the State, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any bump fire stock, multiburst trigger activator, or trigger crank shall be guilty of a class C felony.

     (b)  As used in this section:

     "Bump fire stock" means a butt stock designed to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm and designed, made, or altered to increase the rate of fire achievable with such firearm by using energy from the recoil of the firearm to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.

     "Multiburst trigger activator" means:

     (1)  A device that simulates automatic gunfire by allowing standard function of a semiautomatic firearm with a static positioned trigger finger or a device that fires multiple shots with the pull and release of the trigger; or

     (2)  A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it simulates automatic gunfire.

     "Trigger crank" means any device to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm that repeatedly activates the trigger of the firearm through the use of a lever or other part that is turned in a circular motion, but does not include any firearm initially designed and manufactured to fire through the use of a crank or lever."

   

So when the Gov signs this I am guilty of a felony.  Good job Hawaii.  Criminalizing model citizens one law at a time.  27 year active duty military is now considered a felon.


What a shitshow state.

So when the Gov signs this I am guilty of a felony.  Good job Hawaii.  Criminalizing model citizens one law at a time.  27 year active duty military is now considered a felon.


What a shitshow state.

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris.

"We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against, we're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men, the only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them, one declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone?

But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt.

Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

-Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged