Deputy Who Waited Outside During Florida School Shooting May Be a ‘Coward" (Read 20639 times)

Drakiir84

They're all fucking cowards and deserve to lose their jobs.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

2ahavvaii

Seems like its always the teachers who are in the middle.  So common sense, arm the teachers.

This is how a teacher would protect their students handgun vs AR.  Need to set up an ambush around a blind turn or doorway, close quarters.   An AR is stronger than a concealed carry handgun pretty much in all ways, except close quarters.

Flapp_Jackson

This is how a teacher would protect their students handgun vs AR.  Need to set up an ambush around a blind turn or doorway, close quarters.   An AR is stronger than a concealed carry handgun pretty much in all ways, except close quarters.

The most dangerous place in any room you're clearing is behind doors and furniture, especially in or near corners.

If I were the teacher, I would have 2-3 students hiding behind a large table or desk on one side of the room to attract the shooter's attention - about where you have them drawn.  When he entered the room. I'd be right behind him -- hiding behind the door or other concealment, like a cabinet next to the entrance. 

He'd be down before he gets a foot past the open door.

It all depends on the time you have.  Best idea is lock and barricade the door and cover the windows.  That should allow some time to get set.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 03:36:45 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

This is my opinion:  the cop is sworn to serve and protect.  But that doesn't include rushing headlong into a situation where the odds of succeeding isn't too good.  Taking on shooter(s) armed with ARs with only your 9mm and no backup aint the smartest thing in the world to do.  In dangerous situations normally, cops call and wait for backup before rushing in.  A handgun, concealed or not, is your best defensive option against someone armed with a rifle, but in no ways does it make sense to rush someone head-on.  In a defensive situation, with the element of surprise on your side, you potentially can stop the shooter (such as if teachers or other school employees were armed).

I really don't think hanging the guy for not charging in alone (and probably getting mowed down) is fair.

I haven't seen any news story with enough information for me to really judge.

I know modern police have been trained to attack the shooter as soon as possible but I don't know if this guy was trained to do that. I don't know if he was scared stiff or if he was just asleep on duty.

I know I would feel shame in his position but I try not to judge until I have more information. It is easy to stand back and say I would have rushed in but when faced with the dread of such a situation who knows how we will all act?

eyeeatingfish

I hope that I would be "heroic" in that situation, but it is difficult to predict how I would act.  However, given the job he signed up for, the training he had, and the equipment he was given . . . as the deputy's boss said he should have "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." 

I agree that one element to reducing casualties is removing "gun free zones" and allow concealed carry to those who wish to (including here).  Concealed carry has had positive results, it was a CDC funded study during Obama that found that guns were used defensively 500,000 to 3,000,000 per year.

Got a link to that study? I had heard the FBI estimated 60,000 times a year.

Flapp_Jackson

Got a link to that study? I had heard the FBI estimated 60,000 times a year.

Quote
2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as
offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million
per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/#ixzz57zAVRadN
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 07:15:57 AM by Heavies »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Dana Loesch was at the CNN Town Hall in Florida seated next to the Broward County Sheriff.

She Tweeted:
       
Quote
The sheriff called this "standing up for students."
I hope he gets the irony between his Deputies' lack of protecting students and his comment.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

oldfart

"Some of you men are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you'll all do your duty. ...... When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do."

General George S. Patton
5 June 1944
What, Me Worry?

punaperson

Depends what their policy is on active shooters and what type of training they received.  The majority of the fault could be with the department.
Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/

Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…

Excerpts:

A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.

The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:

Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.

Flapp_Jackson

Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/

Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…

Excerpts:

A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.

The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:

Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.


Based on the article, it appears the same lenient policies that kept Treyvon Martin from becoming a juvenile offender in the system also kept Cruz from suffering the consequences of his bad behavior.

Quote
Broward announced broad changes designed to mitigate the use of harsh punishments for minor misbehavior at the beginning of this school year. While other districts have amended their discipline codes, prohibited arrests in some circumstances, and developed alternatives to suspension, Broward was able to do all these things at once with the cooperation of a group  that included a member of the local NAACP, a school board member, a public defender, a local sheriff, a state prosecutor, and several others. In early November, The Miami Herald reported that suspensions were already down 40 percent and arrests were down 66 percent.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

SOP now is to advance and engage the shooter, without waiting for backup...
From what I have seen in recent years, the cops are like other organized armed groups.  Overwhelming numbers before doing anything.

Texas Rangers, they ain't.

robtmc

A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.
Who is that space alien??

punaperson

Who is that space alien??
(left to right) Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, Hillary Clinton, Broward County School Superintendent Robert Runcie

robtmc

you wipe the dirt from your face and you realize that it's not dirt, it's the blood and gut of what was once your best friend, you'll know what to do."
Thought no modern cop, going home safe each night is the mantra drilled in by their unions.  Killing dogs and drunks lying on their stomach is as far as the courage takes them.

Union tells them to take no risk, they are not required by law to do so.  To do more might hazard their pension and risk legal action.

6716J

Thought no modern cop, going home safe each night is the mantra drilled in by their unions.  Killing dogs and drunks lying on their stomach is as far as the courage takes them.

Union tells them to take no risk, they are not required by law to do so.  To do more might hazard their pension and risk legal action.
SCOTUS has deemed that police have no duty to protect.

Bart: ...By the power invested in me by the honorable William J. Le Petomane...
Bart: ...I hereby assume the duties of sheriff in and for the township of Rock Ridge.
Reverend: Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's not let anger rule the day! As your spiritual leader, I implore you to pay heed to this good book and what it has to say!
Reverend: Son, you're on your own.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Not specific to just the on-scene (non)action, but the department policies in general, their collusion with the school board, and their actions re the 39 calls on the killer prior to the killlings.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriffs-office-did-not-miss-warning-signs-or-make-mistakes/

Broward County Sheriff’s Office Did Not “Miss Warning Signs” or Make “Mistakes”…

Excerpts:

A few points need to be emphasized for those unfamiliar with the Broward County system. First, with revelations of frequent LEO contact and calls from people warning about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, there’s a common narrative mistakenly being pushed by mainstream media.

The Broward County Sheriff’s Office (BSO) didn’t “miss warning signs” or make “mistakes” in not writing up reports. The Sheriff’s office did exactly what their internal policies, procedures and official training required them to do, they intentionally ignored the signs, and intentionally didn’t generate documents. Example:

Miami Herald […] In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.



I often wonder what could have been done based on the warning signs.
People say this guy was weird, and they thought he would be the type to shoot up the place.
He had a large number of police calls to his residence for behavioral issues
He apparently made some level of threats towards this type of incident.

Is this enough to put him on a no-buy list?
Is it enough to lock him away in a mental health facility for a period of time?
Is it enough to block his civil rights in any way?

Specifically, what is the course of actions? Should the school or police have asked the court to consider a mandatory mental health evaluation? Should he be entered into some NCIC database so he would show up when doing a background check?

If the cops did the very least and went to the boys house to talk to him and he denied planning any sort of event, then what do they do?


When looking at these incidents I hear so many accounts of "warning signs" but I have a hard time finding whether any of them would have justified taking away his civil rights.
Examples:
He was very quiet
He was weird
He didn't like others
People didn't like him.

Heck, I could have been one of those guys people at school would have said would be the one most likely to shoot up a school.

aieahound

Flappjackson / Moosed / DarmokatJalad / Mauidog,

I don't think he changed his handle 4 times.
Whose talking to me....no one.

Just an observation.
 :popcorn: :   :geekdanc:
( your Google-fu is awesome though so please don't take your ball and go Home. just play nice)

macsak

96707

Deputy was an SRO, so it is likely he went to ALERRT and would know how to respond to an active shooter. He was also KMA with 30 years in and retirement eligible. I guess that can play with your mind when you are not in a life and death situation.

Flapp_Jackson

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw