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Bump Stocks look to be on the way out.... (Read 10255 times)

Bunker

Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« on: March 10, 2018, 03:17:58 PM »
Quote
The U.S. Department of Justice formally submitted a regulation on Saturday to ban “bump stocks,” a modification to high-capacity rifles that lets them fire like an automatic weapon.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-doj-reclassifies-bump-fire-stocks-machine-guns/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/10/doj-moves-outlaw-bump-stocks-making-them-illegal-own-sell/413237002/
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Aloha808

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 03:21:16 PM »
Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is. Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.
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punaperson

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2018, 03:39:44 PM »
Quote from: Aloha808 on March 10, 2018, 03:21:16 PM
Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is.
Here's how AWR Hawkins put it today:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/10/trumps-doj-moves-ban-manufacture-possession-bump-stocks/

On March 10 Sessions announced the DOJ was close to securing the ban. The DOJ is accomplishing this by redefining the term “machinegun” so that the term covers machineguns and non-machineguns as well. This allows the DOJ to treat firearm accessories that are not conversion devices in a manner consistent with conversion devices.

In other words, although bump stocks do not convert semiautomatics into automatics, redefining the term “machinegun” allows bump stocks to be regulated (banned).

[It's really sad, and scary, that this is the third occasion in about a month that Lewis Carroll has provided the same apt quote: ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’]

Quote from: Aloha808 on March 10, 2018, 03:21:16 PM
Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.
Especially sticks and PVC pipe and rubber bands and pants belt loops. Oh, and hands and arms. This is gonna be good. Fucking "multiburst trigger activator" morons.  >:(

Excellent article on this "words have meaning" aspect in this very context at The Zelman Partisans:

http://zelmanpartisans.com/?p=4960

‘SPLAININ’

Words. Effing. Matter.

Gun owners want to know what you plan to ban next, so we can plan accordingly ourselves. Are you going to ban semiautomatic rifles based on the original AR-15 pattern, or are you going to ban double-single action 1911s, bullet-piercing bullets, ghost bullets, heat-seeking bullets, 30 caliber rapid-fire magazines, shoulder things that go up, and multi-burst trigger activators? None of which exist, but all of which have been proposed for bans.


M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 03:46:58 PM by punaperson »
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changemyoil66

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2018, 03:56:37 PM »
To be honest, i knew about bump stocks/firing. But never looked into the topic/knew about (rubber bands, belt loop, etc...)until the media glorified bump stocks.

So thanks to the anti 2a media, im sure many more people now know about bump stock alternatives. Especially those who have bad intentions.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Hanabata

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2018, 07:18:06 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on March 10, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
So thanks to the anti 2a media, im sure many more people now know about bump stock alternatives. Especially those who have bad intentions.

This exactly.  Now everyone knows about bump firing semi-autos.
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6716J

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 03:03:57 PM »
Quote from: Aloha808 on March 10, 2018, 03:21:16 PM
Then the definition of "machine gun" would have to be edited from what it currently is. Also go ahead and try enforcing and confiscating property from the People.

First we need to find out what the definition of "is" is...................

Confiscation and enforcement is easy if you have a firearm registra..........................tion  :(

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

punaperson

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 07:16:49 PM »
Apparently it's a race to see who can come up with the most inane nonsense. Will "a piece of plastic that attaches to a firearm is now "a machinegun"", or "we'll make up some words that literally don't mean anything and ban those... how about "multiburst trigger activator"?" take home the big prize? Neither the Three Stooges nor the Marx Brothers could top this ignoramus fest.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/12/trumps-doj-declares-plastic-bump-stocks-machine-guns-order-ban/

Trump’s DOJ Declares Plastic Bump Stocks ‘Machine Guns’ in Order to Ban Them

On Monday, President Trump’s Department of Justice (DOJ) announced they are declaring bump stocks to be “machine guns” in order to ban them.
A bump stock is not a firearm; it is a firearm accessory. The DOJ is declaring them to be “machine guns” in order to ban them.

A March 12 press release put forth by the DOJ, says:

The Department of Justice is supporting President Trump’s absolute commitment to ensuring the safety and security of every American by submitting to the Office of Management and Budget a proposed regulation to clarify that bump stock type devices are machine guns under federal law, which will effectively ban the manufacture, sale or possession of these devices.

[What?! No $200 tax stamp availability?!]
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changemyoil66

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2018, 01:05:50 PM »
Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks.  But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2018, 01:42:03 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on March 23, 2018, 01:05:50 PM
Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks.  But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".

When the ATF published new rules to ban green-tip .223/5.56 ammo as "armor piercing", there was a huge uproar.  There's a mandatory requirement that the ATF ask for public comments/input prior to finalization.  In the turmoil, ATF said "Ooops!  We didn't mean to publish that change.  That would be wrong. :P"  They quickly withdrew the changes.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aieahound

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 03:13:31 PM »
Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)

Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.
But belt loops and rubber bands are just that. Redneck engineering. (God bless rednecks) they are made solely to convert a semi-auto into a full auto.

I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.
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macsak

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 03:16:05 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on March 23, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)

Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.

I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.

that is not the definition of a machine gun
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PalisadesKid

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 03:16:39 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on March 23, 2018, 01:05:50 PM
Trump just tweeted that the DOJ will make the ruling today to ban bump stocks.  But I'm not sure what this portion means " mandated comment period".

The NRA backed this with the language that included "and other devices" ... very disturbing.

HOWEVER... Gun Owners of America is preparing for a lawsuit to be filed.


I'm a member of BOTH GOA and NRA. HRA too... but didnt get any membership renewal reminders as I looked back to see it expired in February.
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aieahound

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2018, 03:20:59 PM »
Quote from: macsak on March 23, 2018, 03:16:05 PM
that is not the definition of a machine gun

Really?
You're going with the techinical definition of single function of the trigger?
Maybe they should just use my definition (quoting Humpty Dumpty, see above.  :rofl:)

At worst they should tax stamp 'em.
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macsak

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2018, 03:25:03 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on March 23, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
Really?
You're going with the techinical definition of single function of the trigger?
Maybe they should just use my definition (quoting Humpty Dumpty, see above.  :rofl:)

i'm going with what the law says (well, until the DOJ/president/ATF change the decision, and then i still won't agree with them)
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PalisadesKid

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2018, 03:36:22 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on March 23, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Just curious on this.
You guys don't think bump-stocks turn semi-auto rifles into machine guns?
One conscious pull of the trigger and the gun will keep firing as long as you keep your trigger depressed.
Basically one pull of the trigger. (And recoil control)
Isn't that the definition of a machine gun? (Repeated firing with one pull of the trigger)
And can't you be arrested just for possessing parts to convert to full auto, like a full auto sear, etc.
(HPD guy was busted for that during chicken fight crackdown / FBI employee / HPD corruption scandal a while back)

Belt loop, rubber band, redneck engineering will always be around.
But belt loops and rubber bands are just that. Redneck engineering. (God bless rednecks) they are made solely to convert a semi-auto into a full auto.

I'll admit I haven't finished my homework on this.

Even with a slide fire/bump stock, that trigger is still resetting itself and the trigger isn't continuously depressed.

Still semi-auto.
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aieahound

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2018, 04:44:51 PM »
I get it.
I'm just thinking about the trigger finger, not the mechanical trigger.
Trigger Resetting itself. Key point.
Finger continuously depressing. No finger reset. One pull of the trigger and let the trigger go to work.
Binaries still rock, would be legal within my Humpty Dumpty definition and one could actually aim.

Unless they go with the "anything that could increase the rate of fire" ignoramus bullshit that our legislature came up with.

Bump stocks are a novelty item. Let them have 'em.
They feel victorious. We snicker cause we're the wiser and the kids go back to bed.
Everybody wins.
They didn't restrict our rights.
We still have belt loops and rubber bands.
No mag limits.
No assault weapons bans.
And they get clear backpacks.

That's what the NRA is thinking.
(I'm guessing)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 05:01:19 PM by aieahound »
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changemyoil66

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2018, 07:59:02 PM »
Im hoping trump is playing the left, hence why he added in the tweet "obama couldnt do". So he can say he tried to ban them.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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punaperson

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2018, 08:50:51 PM »
Quote from: aieahound on March 23, 2018, 04:44:51 PM
They didn't restrict our rights.
Please list all the other firearms related items for which possession can be cause for arrest, prosecution, imprisonment and/or fine that don't restrict our rights.

What about handgun mags greater than 10 round capacity?
What about pistols with removal mags and certain cosmetic features?
What about Mossberg 590 Shockwave and equivalents?
What about "stun guns"?
Etc.

And what about "registration"?
What about "permits to acquire"?
What about being photographed, fingerprinted, enrolled in RapBack, and signing away your right to privacy regarding you medical history?
What about no bearing arms outside the home?
Etc.
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aieahound

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2018, 10:40:28 PM »
I don't even understand the question.
Of course I'm, admittedly, kind of an idiot.

None of those have to do with machine guns and bump stocks as far as I can tell.
They restricted our rights in 1934.

Now the stuff you mentioned above, that's a whole new conversation.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 10:51:47 PM by aieahound »
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punaperson

Re: Bump Stocks look to be on the way out....
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2018, 05:31:59 AM »
Quote from: aieahound on March 23, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
I don't even understand the question.
Of course I'm, admittedly, kind of an idiot.

None of those have to do with machine guns and bump stocks as far as I can tell.
They restricted our rights in 1934.

Now the stuff you mentioned above, that's a whole new conversation.
Good grief man.

All the things I listed above are examples where they agree with your comment re bump stocks that "They didn't restrict our rights." Once you join the club of the "I support the Second Amendment, but ... x, y, and z are not infringements, but simply commonsense gun safety regulations..." there is absolutely no end to what will be "regulated" (i.e. made a criminal offense to possess). (See: Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, California, New York, Connecticut, etc.) There is absolutely no evidence that will withstand critical scrutiny that ANY of the things on those lists, least of all making possession of bumpstocks a crime, will have any beneficial effect on "public safety". It's all completely irrational and pure emotion-based hyperbole (obstructing view of the underlying very rational agenda of civilian disarmament). Once you join them in the "it doesn't restrict your rights" theme, there's no end to it... and their end, obviously, is total civilian disarmament... and some of them will even admit that now in the current hysteria. "Why does anyone need more than 10/7/3 rounds in a handgun? Well, except for the police of course. Having 10/7/3 round limitation does not restrict your rights." Etc. If you don't think "they" will take away everything, one increment at a time, all the while claiming "they didn't restrict our rights", well, you haven't been paying attention.
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