Does the permit to purchase and registration process still apply on top of the FFL requirements? I have one and I want to make sure I am in compliance before I move. Thanks

SixTen

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I’d say yes because I see the FFL guys in the HPD line frequently.

Does the permit to purchase and registration process still apply on top of the FFL requirements? I have one and I want to make sure I am in compliance before I move. Thanks

SixTen

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I have a C&R.  All I had to produce for firearms I had shipped to Hawaii for registration was:

1. Valid long gun permit to acquire (even for pistols)
2. My ID
3. A copy of my signed FFL 03 license
4. Receipt from the seller
5. Proof the firearm is C&R eligible - usually a page from the ATF C&R guidebook
6. Firearm for inspection

The only waiting period was when I applied for/renewed the long gun permit.  The guns ship to my home, and I have 5 days to register with HPD.  No intermediary FFL needed, and no handgun permit to acquire or additional waiting period.

The one thing to remember -- if you can buy it locally without paying shipping or an FFL transfer fee, go ahead and do the regular non-C&R transfer.  It makes it easier to sell.  If you start selling more than a few C&R-acquired firearms, the ATF gets nervous that you might be engaging in a business.


In your case, if you are bringing C&R firearms into the state you already own, you can register them like any other out-of-state firearms.  No permits are needed.  As long as you have the firearms listed in your FFL book as C&R, that's what matters when it comes to selling later.  Registration doesn't care how you got them if you are already the legal owner.

I don't know that you need the long gun permit.
I have always produced mine when I registered a C&R, but have never heard definitively that it is necessary.

Anyone know for sure?

I don't know that you need the long gun permit.
I have always produced mine when I registered a C&R, but have never heard definitively that it is necessary.

Anyone know for sure?

Need? No. But it sure makes them happy. And who doesn't want to share a little happiness?
I actually went in to register a C&R rifle once, a Yugo SKS. The officer asked me for my longarm permit. "Do I need it for a C&R?" I asked. "No," he said, "but it makes things a lot easier." When I pulled it out, he definitely looked relieved. I'm guessing that it makes filling in the registration easier... I don't know what other things go on back there.

I don't know that you need the long gun permit.
I have always produced mine when I registered a C&R, but have never heard definitively that it is necessary.

Anyone know for sure?

I was told it is required by the firearm section main answer person, Suzie.  If that's not 100% true, I guess I was duped.

A cursory look at HRS 134-2 seems to say that you do, in fact, need one:

§134-2  Permits to acquire.  (a)  No person shall acquire the ownership of a firearm, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, registered under prior law or by a prior owner or unregistered, either by purchase, gift, inheritance, bequest, or in any other manner, whether procured in the State or imported by mail, express, freight, or otherwise, until the person has first procured from the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn, a permit to acquire the ownership of a firearm as prescribed in this section.

But this is counter to my experience. I've registered several C&R rifles over the years, and each time, I've made a point of getting the officer behind the glass to acknowledge that I didn't need a permit before handing my permit over. I just like them to know I'm cognizant of the rules, you know? And my belief was that since we're talking about interstate commerce, the point of sale was actually outside of Hawaii; therefore, the PTA wasn't relevant.

Looking at 134-2, though, it seems that both I and those officers were wrong.


On an irrelevant tangent, I find it odd that your permit needs to be issued by the chief of police of the county where your place of business is. Only if you don't have a place of business is your place of residence used in determining which chief of police should receive your application.

A cursory look at HRS 134-2 seems to say that you do, in fact, need one:
But this is counter to my experience. I've registered several C&R rifles over the years, and each time, I've made a point of getting the officer behind the glass to acknowledge that I didn't need a permit before handing my permit over. I just like them to know I'm cognizant of the rules, you know? And my belief was that since we're talking about interstate commerce, the point of sale was actually outside of Hawaii; therefore, the PTA wasn't relevant.

Looking at 134-2, though, it seems that both I and those officers were wrong.

You're right.  Federal law overrides the state.  The FFL system is intended to enable interstate trade without state restrictions.  To require a permit would override the protections provided by your license.  More specifically, you don't have to file a form 4473 or undergo an NICS background check when acquiring a C&R firearm.  To apply for a HI permit would involve filling out the state questionnaire (almost identical to the 4473), and submitting to an NICS check.

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/collectors

Are there any FFLs in the state that will honor a C&R?  Specifically, I'd like to purchase online and have the pistol shipped to the FFL,then I just pick it up using my C&R.  I'd like to avoid the two week wait, but of course, the pistol would be immediately registered.  Reason I cant have the C&R pistol shipped to me?  NYC and they're grouchy.

I don't know if this is possible and if it is possible, what is the quickest and most $economical?

Are there any FFLs in the state that will honor a C&R?  Specifically, I'd like to purchase online and have the pistol shipped to the FFL,then I just pick it up using my C&R.  I'd like to avoid the two week wait, but of course, the pistol would be immediately registered.  Reason I cant have the C&R pistol shipped to me?  NYC and they're grouchy.

I don't know if this is possible and if it is possible, what is the quickest and most $economical?

Of which state are you a legal resident?

Of which state are you a legal resident?

808

Anyway, this transaction I'm forced to go traditional FFL route with waiting period.  I dont think any local FFL would allow a C&R pickup because of the requirement to register in the state with HPD upon arrival.  If a pistol, its then subject to the permit to acquire waiting period if it had to be shipped to an FFL, as the FFL will need to reg it in the state before pickup.

808

Anyway, this transaction I'm forced to go traditional FFL route with waiting period.  I dont think any local FFL would allow a C&R pickup because of the requirement to register in the state with HPD upon arrival.  If a pistol, its then subject to the permit to acquire waiting period if it had to be shipped to an FFL, as the FFL will need to reg it in the state before pickup.

You're really making this complicated. I can't tell if all your comments refer to Hi, NY, or both.

If you're a Hawaii resident, you can't have a pistol shipped to you in NYC.  (1) ATF regulations require private intrastate sales to be mailed to an FFL in the buyer's state of residence; (2) If you provide the seller a copy of your C&R license, they will ship to the address on the license.  No exceptions.  You wouldn't want someone stealing a copy of your license and shipping guns under your name to himself in another state, right?

If you pick up the pistol at a local HI FFL, you can use either the HI Permit to Acquire (if you applied for one) OR use your FFL-03 license. With the 03 license, there is no waiting period.

I'm at a loss to understand why shipping the pistol to your address in HI versus an FFL isn't an option.

Regardless of which way you receive the pistol, the registration requirement still exists.

You're really making this complicated. I can't tell if all your comments refer to Hi, NY, or both.

Pardon me flapp, I am new-ish to the C&R world and am currently trying to navigate it while staying on the correct side of the law.

I am buying online from a vendor in NY to be shipped to HI.  Seller in NY will not ship handguns to C&R addressee "per regulations" (thats just what they told me) and will only ship to FFL.  A cursory googling shows that all handguns in NY (even C&R) have to go through an FFL.  True or not, the seller wont ship it direct regardless but I'd tend to believe it knowing what I know of NY gun laws.  Bummer, but price was right and thats what I get for late night shopping on my phone. 

Now, the pistol is currently en route to a FFL here in the state.  I'd like to simply walk in the shop, hand over the signed copy of my C&R, show my ID, and head right over to HPD without doing the two week paper shuffle song and dance.

Pardon me flapp, I am new-ish to the C&R world and am currently trying to navigate it while staying on the correct side of the law.

I am buying online from a vendor in NY to be shipped to HI.  Seller in NY will not ship handguns to C&R addressee "per regulations" (thats just what they told me) and will only ship to FFL.  A cursory googling shows that all handguns in NY (even C&R) have to go through an FFL.  True or not, the seller wont ship it direct regardless but I'd tend to believe it knowing what I know of NY gun laws.  Bummer, but price was right and thats what I get for late night shopping on my phone. 

Now, the pistol is currently en route to a FFL here in the state.  I'd like to simply walk in the shop, hand over the signed copy of my C&R, show my ID, and head right over to HPD without doing the two week paper shuffle song and dance.

It's easier to register C&R guns (pistols included) in HI if you have a valid HI long gun permit to acquire.  I was asked for mine when registering a C&R pistol that shipped to my house, but I don't think that's part of the law.

Make sure you also take evidence when registering that the firearm qualifies as a C&R item.  It's up to you to show proof to HPD.  A paragraph in the ATF C&R Guide Book works.  You also need the description of the pistol from the seller's invoice.  That should list the date of manufacture, which can help prove it's C&R eligible.

If you have any doubts about being able to offer proof, maybe it'll be simpler to just apply for a regular pistol permit since the local FFL will already have it?  That would also make selling it later easier if you decide -- no worries over the C&R-is-not-a -business restrictions.

maybe it'll be simpler to just apply for a regular pistol permit since the local FFL will already have it?  That would also make selling it later easier if you decide -- no worries over the C&R-is-not-a -business restrictions.

Yup, got it.

My question/concern was over the local FFL and whether or not they'll simply hand me the pistol without wait period and permit to acquire.  I understand that when you procure a firearm out of state and is shipped to an FFL01 or up, the FFL here then takes it to HPD to get it registered.  After the FFL has reg'd it in their name, you can then acquire it from the FFL.  I've never purchased a C&R item from a shop here so I dont know if one can simply walk into one of our LGS with C&R in hand and leave with an oldie but goodie.

I really dont mind too much doing the regular reg process - I suppose it will clear up any transfer headaches should I sell the piece in the future and keep me from entering the pistol into my ledger.