Students protesting the flag (Read 49297 times)

hvybarrels

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2018, 08:25:37 PM »
It's definitely something that is definitely debatable, but in the spirit of  :stopjack: ....

Having anti-colonial protestors being punished for walking out versus the gun control protests getting enthusiastic approval and even direct support means there is a huge double standard at play here.

No matter how you feel about the legal issues surrounding the Kingdom let's not overlook the fact that these kids are throwing us a bone right now.
The F in Communism stands for Food

ren

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2018, 08:26:33 PM »
Again Mods close this stupid ass thread I created.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2018, 08:27:24 PM »
There are several post-colonial Pacific island nations that have spent the past few decades doing just fine. Are the evil super powers just being lazy?

No, they are not being lazy.  There is not many evil super powers in the World today.

The only super power that has been invading soveriegn nations for nearly the last 30 years is the US.  Hence, when Hawaii restores its rightful place as a internationally recognized neutral nation, as it was prior to the illegal overthrow, the only super power it needs to fear being invaded from is the US.    :wtf:

ren

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2018, 08:28:29 PM »
Hearing the same rhetoric over the years. Be resilient. Look at other peoples atrocities. The Japanese. The Jews. The Chinese. See them crying? nope. They got back on their feet. Stop your whining and get to work on your "nation". Move on man. Stop doing stupid meaningless shit like crying over flag poles. That ain't doing jack shit. So you got a flag to fly at same level as the US? What has that gotten?
Again Mods close this stupid ass thread I created.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2018, 08:32:23 PM »
Again Mods close this stupid ass thread I created.

Mods please don't.

The knowledge, dissemination, and sharing of the illegal overthrow of Hawaii as well as the importance of people to defend their rights to bear arms against foreign and domestic enemies of the state is at an all time high because of this thread.

Hail Ren!

Long live the 2nd Amendment!

ren

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2018, 08:35:16 PM »
Mods please don't.

The knowledge, dissemination, and sharing of the illegal overthrow of Hawaii as well as the importance of people to defend their rights to bear arms against foreign and domestic enemies of the state is at an all time high because of this thread.

Hail Ren!

Long live the 2nd Amendment!

Yes. Long live the 2A but it has got nothing to do with this topic. My mistake. Same old shit again.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2018, 08:37:07 PM »
The Japanese. The Jews. The Chinese. See them crying? nope.

What are you talking about?

People in Japan has never forgotten the genocidal act by the US in the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

People in China has and never will forget the war atrocities committed by the Japanese army in Nanjing, China in 1938.

The Israeli's has and still complain and receive money from the US and other nations from the Holocaust in WWII.

hvybarrels

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2018, 08:38:20 PM »
2A is definitely a big part of this conversation and I have no idea why bringing it up provokes so much fear. Is the fact that people disagree about stuff really that terrifying?
The F in Communism stands for Food

ren

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2018, 08:44:07 PM »
What are you talking about?

People in Japan has never forgotten the genocidal act by the US in the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

People in China has and never will forget the war atrocities committed by the Japanese army in Nanjing, China in 1938.

The Israeli's has and still complain and receive money from the US and other nations from the Holocaust in WWII.

The Japanese started a war and we responded. Sure they suffered so did we at Pearl Harbor. My grandparents fled China from the Japanese Army.
My point is that these countries were resilient and grew. They didn't take 100 years to do it. You talk about the imperialist US? Look at China. They don't take land they go ahead and build it. See them crying over spilled milk? They easily overpower Japan.
So let's take a look at this Hawaiian flag flying at level or over the US. Symbolic sure. You think all these US citizens who live here will see that and vacate? How about the military?
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2018, 09:01:50 PM »
My point is that these countries were resilient and grew. They didn't take 100 years to do it.

Yes, that is correct.

However, it is hard for the remnants of the citizenry of the Hawaiian nation to thrive, when it is being occupied by a foreign power whose political authority allows immigrants decade after decade to overload the carrying capacity of the land.  Just like with the allowing of illegal immigrants into the US today.  How can the US have any type of economic recovery when it has to absorb the costs of living of these unwelcomed migrants?


So let's take a look at this Hawaiian flag flying at level or over the US. Symbolic sure. You think all these US citizens who live here will see that and vacate?

No, I don't think so.



How about the military?

That will take time, but it is possible.

Let us not forget when the Philippines ousted US-backed human rights violator and dictator, Ferdinand Marcos, to Hawaii of all places, the Philippines closed the US military bases on its soil.  It was only when the US was able to get another US-puppet elected President, when those bases were reopened.

Interestingly, the US could loose its military bases in the Philippines once again, since its current President Duterte is no American stooge.

hvybarrels

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2018, 09:52:56 PM »
Right now there's a snowball's chance in hell of any kind of U.S. withdrawal. If anything it's about to get a lot more crowded here when former allies start shutting down our bases.

What could change things are Black Swan events like a budget crisis or an epidemic or large-scale volcanic activity.

At that point we will have to confront the fact that this is a welfare state (more like a welfare gated community) and the current status quo makes us extremely vulnerable to systemic shocks. All these issues will take on much more meaning when the free money dries up and the rats scurry off the ship in search of greener pastures.

It's an inevitable consequence of building an economy on such a shaky foundation instead of paying attention to what the land can actually support.
The F in Communism stands for Food

bass monkey

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2018, 09:57:44 PM »
Hearing the same rhetoric over the years. Be resilient. Look at other peoples atrocities. The Japanese. The Jews. The Chinese. See them crying? nope. They got back on their feet. Stop your whining and get to work on your "nation". Move on man. Stop doing stupid meaningless shit like crying over flag poles. That ain't doing jack shit. So you got a flag to fly at same level as the US? What has that gotten?
Again Mods close this stupid ass thread I created.

I agree,  and seen the same when I was going to college.
Its illegal,  etc,  etc.  Same talking points
And no one still won't do anything about it,  just like when it first happened. 
Put some stickers on your lifted truck and wear shirts taking about it but that's about as far as it will go. 
Everyone talks about the "nation" but no one is willing to fight for it.
They waiting for international law,  the united states,  everyone else but themselves.
And that's what separates America,  from other nations

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2018, 10:50:24 PM »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2018, 10:51:18 PM »
Everyone talks about the "nation" but no one is willing to fight for it.

Native Hawaiians are fighting to restore that that was wrongfully taken away.  Educating Americans on the continental US about the truth regarding the illegality of the overthrow, for example, is only in its infancy and is getting much more attention than ever before, as notably on this forum.


And that's what separates America,  from other nations

This arrogant statement is an insult for all other nations that regained their freedom from tyranny throughout history.


Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2018, 11:06:55 PM »


Addressing the crimes committed by Americans who violate the US Constitution is every American's responsibility, especially for those who cherish the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The illegal annexation of Hawaii was illegal because the action violated US Constitutional Law.  According to official US documents, Hawaii was annexed through an act of Congress, "the Newlands Resolution", that was signed into law by President McKinley in 1898.  However, this act was a violation of US Constitutional Law, whereby, Hawaii could only be legally annexed via treaty through the Department of State under then President McKinley, which failed in the US Senate due to the Kue petitions submitted by Native Hawaiians opposed to the annexation.  Based on the Constitution, Congress only has jurisdiction to make laws governing the territory within its borders.  Since Hawaii was an internationally recognized nation, Congress had no authority to draft bills to annex Hawaii.  Consequently, the US has no legal basis to exert political authority over Hawaii and its de facto presence in Hawaii today is an illegal occupation, as defined in international law.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2018, 11:14:42 PM »
Addressing the crimes committed by Americans who violate the US Constitution is every American's responsibility, especially for those who cherish the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The illegal annexation of Hawaii was illegal because the action violated US Constitutional Law.  According to official US documents, Hawaii was annexed through an act of Congress, "the Newlands Resolution", that was signed into law by President McKinley in 1898.  However, this act was a violation of US Constitutional Law, whereby, Hawaii could only be legally annexed via treaty through the Department of State under then President McKinley, which failed in the US Senate due to the Kue petitions submitted by Native Hawaiians opposed to the annexation.  Based on the Constitution, Congress only has jurisdiction to make laws governing the territory within its borders.  Since Hawaii was an internationally recognized nation, Congress had no authority to draft bills to annex Hawaii.  Consequently, the US has no legal basis to exert political authority over Hawaii and its de facto presence in Hawaii today is an illegal occupation, as defined in international law.

If the annexation was illegal, then you have no case for violation of your Constitutional rights, because the state would not be a state.  If the annexation was legal, then you can address those violations -- except the annexation would have to be legal to do that.

Catch 22.

 :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2018, 11:19:18 PM »
If the annexation was illegal, then you have no case for violation of your Constitutional rights, because the state would not be a state.  If the annexation was legal, then you can address those violations -- except the annexation would have to be legal to do that.

Catch 22.

 :rofl:

Very funny.

However, the fact that America has military bases and its citizenry in Hawaii does not change the fact that the US has no legal basis to be in Hawaii. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2018, 11:24:50 PM »
Very funny.

However, the fact that America has military bases and its citizenry in Hawaii does not change the fact that the US has no legal basis to be in Hawaii.

We have bases and US citizens living and working in foreign countries all over the world.  That point is immaterial to your argument.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Inspector

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2018, 06:07:34 AM »
Kuleana,

I am not going to take sides in this thread as I honestly cannot tell what the truth actually is. I have read numerous books and opinions on this subject over the years and from my point of view both sides has holes in their arguments. Due to this I do not want to discuss this though I will follow this thread if it continues.

However, I do have a statement and a question for you. After reading everything you wrote here I feel like you look at me as an "unwelcomed migrant". Is this how you feel about haole's like me? I have experienced plenty of racist comments and shout downs since I moved here 10 years ago. Every incident involves someone who feels the way you do and tells me to go back to the mainland. Actually yells at me to go back to the mainland. I was threatened once as well.  >:( >:( >:(

I have always felt that we are all Americans here and are on the same side even though our opinions differ. Yet, after reading some of your words I get the feeling that you don't consider yourself an American. And that you would truly wish that we would just give back all of our land and homes to the monarchy move away.  :( :( :(

I agree with Ren for probably a different reason. Mods, please close this thread.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Direjackalope

Re: Students protesting the flag
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2018, 06:56:10 AM »
Don’t worry. I’m sure you’re one of the good ones.