Firearms Training - Sharing Experience (Read 5137 times)

Surf

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2019, 04:51:11 PM »
Shot a handgun course over the weekend with a Glock 17 with Trijicon RMR.  This was in a handgun course level that I had taken before with this group, so I felt it was a good environment to test out the handgun with RMR set up.  That and it's ALWAYS good to work on fundamentals, especially since I haven't shot that much in the past year. 

Going in, I was wondering how I would pick up the dot on the draw as well as in between shots.  Got to experience that and came away with things I can work on with the instructors as well as things that I'd like to work on in general.  The two instructors also had differing experience on handgun with red dots, which I found helpful to have a range of perspectives. 

Some highlights:
1) Sloppiness and bad habits that I have with trigger control was apparent in the first live fire exercise (one hole drill).  Something that I am aware of and actually spend quite a bit of time doing ball and dummy drills.  This tendency seems to creep in both when I haven't shot in a while and after going through periods where I've been shooting quite a bit, but not that much on paper.  While I was happy that I was able to clean things up for the second pass at the one hole drill and subsequent drills, always humbling to see that your fundamentals could use some work.  While I was actually "ok" with the first group that I shot, the instructor noticed it.  I also think that maybe shooting with the dot allowed me to relax a bit one some of the drills where I am normally concentrating on the front sight, I think things tended to "wander".

2) I definitely noticed the "dot twitch", where the dot always seems to be moving where the front sight seems stable.  Having shot this level course before, I was trying to push myself to "aim smaller".  One target had a logo for an aim point in the middle of a target circle, but that logo also had smaller points that allowed a smaller POA.  That's where I was really noticing the dot jump.  I had noticed it before and read about it some.  Would discuss briefly with both instructors.  Not a bad thing, but something I noticed.  In some of the drills where I was pushing for more speed, I had to push "not letting the dot hover" and just pick a "good enough" and go. 

3) Picking up the dot in between shots is something I definitely noticed and something I think I can clean up with shooting more regularly.  The cadence drills certainly helped to see that and I think those will help that moving forward.  But on another drill that called for multiple shots and I was trying to push it, the instructor commented on how I didn't seem to be pushing it enough since my target was still relatively clean.  I found that I was waiting on the dot in some cases.  I should be shooting this gun flat enough that I thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but definitely something I'll have to work on. 

4) Gun manipulations with the red dot is a little different.  Actually easier in one case in one method that one of the instructors recommended and I see it coming into play more with malfunction clearance.

5) There is a definite learning curve with the red dot for me.  Something I'll have to spend time on and think about if I really want to stick with it.  I think so, but I just hope to get in more range time with it in order to give it a fair shake.

Overall, it was a SUPER fun day on the range.  Always fun shooting with this group.  It was a repeat for me, so it was great to see some familiar faces that were taking the class again, which I think is always great.  I'd personally would shoot with this group on any level class that they offer as I always end the day having improved and found things that I need to improve.  It was also great to see a bunch of new faces with in shooting classes for the first time.  One was an AWESOME shooter.  I was shooting next to him all day, but in different relays.  While it's not a competition, I can honestly say that that pushed me to focus more.  I was also shooting next two a guy I had shot with in a carbine class before with this group.  He's a really good shooter too, and there was definitely some friendly competition going on.  All good fun and great to see folks putting in the time to get training and having a really good time in doing so. 

No gear changes or wants after the course, which is unusual for me.  Just need more ammo now.   ;D
Sounds like a great day!  Often people underestimate the benefits of getting back to a foundational or fundamentals type of course.  Obviously, the training group presenting the material is critical, but many people (especially males) don't realize the value in taking, or repeating a "Foundational" level course and often ego gets in the way of progression.  Great to see you putting in the work, and it shows!

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2019, 07:31:20 AM »
Sounds like a great day!  Often people underestimate the benefits of getting back to a foundational or fundamentals type of course.  Obviously, the training group presenting the material is critical, but many people (especially males) don't realize the value in taking, or repeating a "Foundational" level course and often ego gets in the way of progression.  Great to see you putting in the work, and it shows!
It was an awesome day for sure!  The weather conditions made for an interesting and soggy day. . .    ;D

I've always been one to often go back to fundamentals (esp with shooting) and really appreciate instructors and training groups that both stress the importance of that as well as put in the work on those themselves.  Totally hear you on the ego thing.  I had a couple of buddies who I really wanted to take this course, but they felt that "foundational" wouldn't benefit them.  A couple of others had drill that weekend, but were down to go.  Hopefully I'll be able to get them to come out in the near future. 

Surf

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2019, 10:40:15 PM »
It was an awesome day for sure!  The weather conditions made for an interesting and soggy day. . .    ;D

I've always been one to often go back to fundamentals (esp with shooting) and really appreciate instructors and training groups that both stress the importance of that as well as put in the work on those themselves.  Totally hear you on the ego thing.  I had a couple of buddies who I really wanted to take this course, but they felt that "foundational" wouldn't benefit them.  A couple of others had drill that weekend, but were down to go.  Hopefully I'll be able to get them to come out in the near future.
As discussed, I get it, and in their defense, they have no knowledge behind this training groups concept and the training approach that they employ in the "Foundational" course that you took.  Conceptually the progression of training, drills and more importantly how the drills can be executed by the individual is not something we have seen anywhere from a "base" level course.

I have yet to see anyone's base level course be able to hold the attention and test any shooter skill level from newer shooter all the way through advanced shooter.  The concept was formulated by doing workups specifically for high-level shooters in select .mil and LE units pre-deployment.  It is dubbed "Extreme Fundamentals" and is one course in a series of Advanced Diagnostics courses that was developed by that training group, and concepts from those courses can be seen in the base level course. 

In fact, we have seen the same reaction as your buddies to the name "Extreme Fundamentals" by some pretty serious shooters.  Invariably guys are literally sweating bullets in that course, not because it is physically challenging, but mentally and emotionally challenging.  You finish that course as fatigued as any physically oriented course and guys can't wait to do it again or the next in the series.  Hopefully, they are able to offer that series here someday.