I think everyone here can agree that we need all the help we can get in order to challenge the elitist narrative that gun ownership is somehow equated with defective moral character.

The weakness of our opponents is that they virtue signal with one breath and then spread easily disprovable lies with the next. As long as we can hold ranks and keep the moral high ground it's very difficult for them to push their agenda since they come across as unhinged while we look rational and mature in comparison. Once we drop down to their level of insults and tantrums then it's all about the momentum of sheer numbers, and in this State we are at a clear disadvantage.

it all boils down to this......

One strategy I use for handling debates on subjects is to watch professional debates.  Each side makes a statement, a rebuttal, then it's up to the audience to figure out what side they want to go with.  They don't keep going back and forth on the subject or asking for references or badgering the other side.

Problem I see is people really want to win at all costs and get so into it that they get tunnel vision.  People looking in from the outside just see two idiots arguing.

1) I think everyone here can agree that we need all the help we can get in order to challenge the elitist narrative that gun ownership is somehow equated with defective moral character.

The weakness of our opponents is that they virtue signal with one breath and 2) then spread easily disprovable lies with the next. As long as we can hold ranks and keep the moral high ground it's very difficult for them to push their agenda since they come across as unhinged while we look rational and mature in comparison. Once we drop down to their level of insults and tantrums then it's all about the momentum of sheer numbers, and in this State we are at a clear disadvantage.

1) Yes.  Like with any groups, they often get labeled or associated based on the bad apples.  Gun owners get associated with the mass shooters or crazed apocalyse prepper types.  I see many responsible gun owners who are active in advocating for gun rights, but I see many more who have the "I've got mine and I just want to be left alone" mentality.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the latter, but I also think that's why you see the gun community so fractured.  The shotgunners talking shit about the precision rifle guys.  The precision rifle guys looking down at the competition shooters.  And so on. 

2) I dunno.  I see the lies being perpetuated and eaten up by anti-2a folks and even worse, those who would otherwise be neutral but buy into the emotional angle that anti-2a arguments typically go with.  That and so much perpetuation of myths.  I still remember my sister asking me about my Glocks and if they are the ones that can pass through metal detectors at airports.  Mind you, she enjoys shooting and has come to the range with us many times. 

Another thing I see here is what appears to be difficulty in communication across what I assume are generation differences.  Not sure how old all of you guys are, but I have a general idea of many.  Each generation has their own distinct language and culture created by their unique generational markers and frame of reference.  I see this all the time at work and in life really.  I really the Baby Boomers and Millennials constantly butting heads more than other groups and a lot of that is that the just don't communicate well.

One of the big problems I see about communicating on a forum is a lack of verbal and visual communication. Most people don't realize (or don't care) that a reader cannot always determine the intentions of what the writer is saying due to not being able to see their facial expressions and hear the inflections in their voice. We all rely on these in order to either communicate or understand what is being communicated. It takes a great understanding of this in order to effectively communicate on a forum like this. People can be banned but that is not something that occurs much in this forum.

I tend to agree with those who feel most people are getting too butt hurt and if the butt hurt can't take it then they should just move on. I'm not saying that we shouldn't all be accomodating here. But let's face it, you cannot control those who tend to be insulting, condensating, name calling, etc. You can only control how you act towards others and react to those who are abrasive towards you. Ignoring those who one finds obnoxious is the best way to handle this situation. Then all can participate. Unfortunately, human behavior isn't so cut and dried.

If the owner/mods of this forum are concerned about users not coming back, then they should take action to moderate the forum appropriately. But since that appears likely to not change anytime soon we need to adapt to the users who do post here. Not complaining, just stating a fact here. Otherwise, if one doesn't like what is being said, don't get involved in the discussions. JMHO

There's also the question of responsibility and recognizing the role of the site in the bigger picture. When people search for gun related stuff in Hawaii this site is at the top of the results. That means the voices here are the loudest when it comes to representing everyone in the state.

It's also human nature for people to look the other way towards bad behavior when offensive parties happen to be on the same side of some the issues. There's no other way to explain why religious dogmatics support Trump despite his porn star banging antics, or why many in the supposed anti-war left stayed in love with Obomber throughout his term. It's not right or wrong, but high level hypocrisy definitely makes coalition building much more difficult when appealing to moderates who don't have a taste for bullshit sandwiches.

I have friends who are doing the IIFYM.

Damn youtube, cant insert the Good Morning Vietnam clip ( The VP is a VIP who the VC want very much to be KIA or MIA. And if he's a POE, we will all be on KP.)

Another thing I see here is what appears to be difficulty in communication across what I assume are generation differences.  Not sure how old all of you guys are, but I have a general idea of many.  Each generation has their own distinct language and culture created by their unique generational markers and frame of reference.  I see this all the time at work and in life really.  I really the Baby Boomers and Millennials constantly butting heads more than other groups and a lot of that is that the just don't communicate well.

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