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Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident (Read 19696 times)

zippz

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2018, 10:11:48 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on May 31, 2018, 10:04:51 AM
I hope Active Self Protection does a review of this.  I went to his website and can't find a "contact" section.

Good idea.  Ill contact him
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PeaShooter

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2018, 10:24:26 AM »
I can only load the first bit of the video before it freezes, but if I were on the jury I would say the young guy advancing forward like that counts as threatening deadly or bodily injury, so even a shooting (which didn't actually occur) would be justifiable self-defense. Assuming that area is his private property.
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changemyoil66

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2018, 10:34:04 AM »
Quote from: PeaShooter on May 31, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
I can only load the first bit of the video before it freezes, but if I were on the jury I would say the young guy advancing forward like that counts as threatening deadly or bodily injury, so even a shooting (which didn't actually occur) would be justifiable self-defense. Assuming that area is his private property.
\

Death or serious bodily injury would be hard to prove because the aggressor had no weapon.  1 could argue, "well he's younger and stronger than I am (senior citizen)".

But serious bodily injury is defined as a puncture of an organ or loss of motor function.  So again, no weapon makes it very hard to prove.

At least he tried retreating first and that's on video.
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robtmc

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2018, 11:44:37 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on May 31, 2018, 10:34:04 AM
But serious bodily injury is defined as a puncture of an organ or loss of motor function.  So again, no weapon makes it very hard to prove.
 

The law implies a younger guy can pound on an older one, but it is all cool as long as he is careful not to stab the guy or knock him out?

That does not sound right, that the older guy should have to wait and see how badly he will be beaten.
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drck1000

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 12:05:39 PM »
Quote
§703-304 Use of force in self-protection.

The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.

That does NOT mention anything about a weapon or anything else needed for the actor to believe deadly force is necessary.  Really need to get away from the mentality that a weapon is need to justify how one defends themselves. 

That said, while I personally don't feel that anything that I saw in the video would have made me feel that use of deadly force was justified, I wasn't there and I wasn't the one being or feeling threatened.  Did the old guy go to far?  From what I saw in the video, probably.  But again, I wasn't there nor was I the one potentially at risk. 
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Rocky

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 12:25:04 PM »
They may live in Lelani, but not where they were.
In the very beginning of the video there are two others (male ?) in the background running towards them AS the youngster advances towards old man
SEE DISPARITY OF FORCE
HE THEN DRAWS.
Either way, dispensing a round NOT on target is wrong.  :grrr:
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 12:30:03 PM »
The key word is "believes".  I'm just saying it's more work for his attorney compared to if the other guy had any type of weapon/object.  Could someone get punched once and fall down and hit their head and get killed?  Yes it happens.  Could he get punched and have a laceration on his face/head?  Yes and the skin is an organ so the serious injury definition could be met also.

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zippz

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 12:33:28 PM »
For self defense it all comes down to what the jury determines to be reasonable.
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Inspector

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
Quote from: drck1000 on May 31, 2018, 09:34:53 AM
Eh. It was just a 22. :P (/kidding)
Yeah, but it was a revolver! He can't be all that bad, right?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

changemyoil66

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2018, 01:36:39 PM »
Quote from: Inspector on May 31, 2018, 01:32:43 PM
Yeah, but it was a revolver! He can't be all that bad, right?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Could a modern 22 revolver hold more than 10rds?  I've seen a pic of a really old one that had like 15rds in the cylinder.
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groveler

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2018, 01:39:57 PM »
I concealed carried in WA state for many years.
Number one rule is if you feel that much of a threat
to pull out and aim your weapon, you MUST use it to stop
the threat. I'm going to shoot you, not try to scare you.
Trying to scare someone with a gun is brandishment.
That is usually illegal and stupid.
I'm not a trained cop, I'm trained military,
and I've been shooting since I was 8 years old.
I don't generally miss my target.

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Inspector

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2018, 01:41:15 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on May 31, 2018, 01:36:39 PM
Could a modern 22 revolver hold more than 10rds?  I've seen a pic of a really old one that had like 15rds in the cylinder.
I have an older one that holds 9 but the more moderns ones I have seen hold 10. If you have seen a really old one that holds somewhere around 15 I have never seen one. If you could find out what it is I would be really interested in researching it. Not that I'm a revolver and .22 fanatic or anything...  :oops: :oops: :oops:
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2018, 01:55:12 PM »
Quote from: Inspector on May 31, 2018, 01:41:15 PM
I have an older one that holds 9 but the more moderns ones I have seen hold 10. If you have seen a really old one that holds somewhere around 15 I have never seen one. If you could find out what it is I would be really interested in researching it. Not that I'm a revolver and .22 fanatic or anything...  :oops: :oops: :oops:

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drck1000

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2018, 01:56:05 PM »
The most I’ve seen is 10 rounds. Not sure what vintage though.
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drck1000

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2018, 01:58:44 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on May 31, 2018, 12:25:04 PM
They may live in Lelani, but not where they were.
In the very beginning of the video there are two others (male ?) in the background running towards them AS the youngster advances towards old man
SEE DISPARITY OF FORCE
HE THEN DRAWS.
Either way, dispensing a round NOT on target is wrong.  :grrr:
Disparity of force was one thing I was thinking. Can only see so much from the camera angle and it seemed to me that the younger guy was part of a group.

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changemyoil66

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2018, 02:06:46 PM »
Quote from: groveler on May 31, 2018, 01:39:57 PM
I concealed carried in WA state for many years.
Number one rule is if you feel that much of a threat
to pull out and aim your weapon, you MUST use it to stop
the threat. I'm going to shoot you, not try to scare you.
Trying to scare someone with a gun is brandishment.
That is usually illegal and stupid.
I'm not a trained cop, I'm trained military,
and I've been shooting since I was 8 years old.
I don't generally miss my target.

There was a reporter in Oregon who was arrested for that.  He had a hostile crowd approaching him and he brandished his handgun that he had concealed. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/man_accused_of_pulling_gun_on.html

Watching the video, he seemed to have lots of space.  IDK what the OR deadly force laws are.  But vid did show how stupid people are. Guy pulls gun and they still choose to confront and walk toward him.
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groveler

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2018, 02:59:39 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on May 31, 2018, 02:06:46 PM
There was a reporter in Oregon who was arrested for that.  He had a hostile crowd approaching him and he brandished his handgun that he had concealed. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/man_accused_of_pulling_gun_on.html

Watching the video, he seemed to have lots of space.  IDK what the OR deadly force laws are.  But vid did show how stupid people are. Guy pulls gun and they still choose to confront and walk toward him.
That was because he did not use it.
"One man with a rifle can control a hundred".
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bass monkey

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2018, 04:23:31 PM »
The guy updated his post
Also has a go fund me set up
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011305921547&fref=nf&ref=m_notif&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic

That last comment though.   ???
Sorry I forgot some of you don't fall into the "scroll hole"/ social media



Always stand up to bullies to prevent another person from being their next victim.
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dafrtknocker

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2018, 05:21:58 PM »
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/05/31/breaking-news/pahoa-man-61-charged-in-leilani-estates-armed-robbery-caught-on-video/

More info on shooter.

John Hubbard was charged Wednesday with two counts of first-degree reckless endangering, five counts of terroristic threatening, one count of first-degree robbery, ownership of a firearm prohibited, place to keep a pistol, failure to register a firearm, failure to obtain a gun permit and use of a firearm in the commission of a separate felony.
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zippz

Re: Leilani Estates man arrested for allegedly firing handgun at resident
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2018, 05:28:37 PM »
Sounds like he's screwed and has a past record too.

I wonder what the robbery charge was for and why 5 counts of threatening.
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