My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures (Read 5858 times)

michaelkih

Since people here have enjoyed my previous machine gun posts from my collection back in Texas, here is another one.

I'm over the moon right now. Only 29,000 Japanese Type 11s were made over a period of 20 years, and almost all were destroyed obviously. There are sadly estimated to only be about 100 left and on the NFA registry for civilian ownership.  A hundred!  That's it!  It's a funky machine gun with an odd, but VERY cool feeding system, and was designed in 1922, when guns were skillfully machined with tight tolerances, because countries still had the time and resources needed to build guns that way. I have wanted one for years but finding one was hard, and finding one that was nice and matching was seeming to be impossible. 

Yes, my MG42 is a better gun, and more fun, but there were half a million of them made.  When I decided I wanted one, it took a week to find one.  And yes my Colt Thompson is also rare and a better gun as well, but while there were only 15,000 of them made, many have survived.  Around 1,800 are on the NFA registry here in the sates.  Not a ton, but still that's a high percentage from what was made 97 years ago, and finding one for sale is not hard at all.  And yes there are many many better machine guns, but there is something about the Japanese Type 11 that has always made me always want one.  Perhaps it is a combination of the machine work, the weirdness, and the fact it's a Japanese made machine gun?  Who knows.  I just know I have wanted one, and it took me 6 years to find one in a complete package like this.

So after 6 years of looking, here it is!!  It's a 100% internally and externally matching and original nearly mint condition example from the Kokura, Tokyo factory, and was made in April of 1942.  Just as good as finding the gun itself, are all of the parts and spare parts included with it! Original sling, muzzle cover, spare bolts, springs, barrel, pins, etc. You just DO NOT find spare parts for these guns!  Or the slings, muzzle covers, etc. The seller is a super nice guy and I feel lucky to have found this package deal, as I probably would have never found a package like this one ever again.

Anyways, I hope you all enjoy the pictures and my rambling.  I am excited!


















robtmc

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 09:28:57 AM »
That IS very cool.  I guess if you can afford what it must have cost, ammo price to feed it could not be an issue.

Does it take some weird Japanese cartridge?

changemyoil66

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 09:32:39 AM »
Did this one have the imperial crest on it. Or a scratch mark where the crest would have been?

Inspector

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 10:18:29 AM »
That IS very cool.  I guess if you can afford what it must have cost, ammo price to feed it could not be an issue.

Does it take some weird Japanese cartridge?
You beat me to the question!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Inquiring minds want to know.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 11:10:44 AM »
That's a cool gun.  I wish each gun could tell a story of where they've been and what they've seen.  Some of those stories might be ugly, but I bet many stories would be interesting and things that maybe aren't reported in popular version of history.

I recall watching a show about WWII and what led up to it.  Something about a soldier (I forget which country) had a chance to kill a young Adolf Hitler when he was serving in the Bavarian Army and serving as a dispatch runner when on the front lines (at least for a time).  It was apparently from Hitler's account that the soldier had a chance to kill him, but something it was at the end of a bloody battle and Hilter wasn't armed and didn't present a threat, so the solider let him run away.  Then the following discussion on how that single decision could have changed history.  Always found stuff like that interesting. 

changemyoil66

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2018, 11:17:40 AM »
That's a cool gun.  I wish each gun could tell a story of where they've been and what they've seen.  Some of those stories might be ugly, but I bet many stories would be interesting and things that maybe aren't reported in popular version of history.

I recall watching a show about WWII and what led up to it.  Something about a soldier (I forget which country) had a chance to kill a young Adolf Hitler when he was serving in the Bavarian Army and serving as a dispatch runner when on the front lines (at least for a time).  It was apparently from Hitler's account that the soldier had a chance to kill him, but something it was at the end of a bloody battle and Hilter wasn't armed and didn't present a threat, so the solider let him run away.  Then the following discussion on how that single decision could have changed history.  Always found stuff like that interesting.

Or he could have had a tree fall on him.

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2018, 11:32:33 AM »
That IS very cool.  I guess if you can afford what it must have cost, ammo price to feed it could not be an issue.

Does it take some weird Japanese cartridge?

It fires an WWII Japanese round.  It's called both the 6.5x50 Arisaka or or the 6.5 Jap.  I have plenty of ammo for it, and extra brass and projectiles to load more if I ever need more, but I don't plan on shooting this one that much.  I am just very glad to own it.

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2018, 11:34:33 AM »
Did this one have the imperial crest on it. Or a scratch mark where the crest would have been?

No.  For some reason, many of the Japanese machine guns never had the crest on then.  Kind of weird, but it's just how they were made.  The rifles on the other hand almost all have the crest, or the scratched off remains of the crest on them.  I own a Type 99 rifle with the crest.  Also, my Type 14 pistol, no crest on it or removed from it.  Maybe they were most proud of their rifles?  Who knows.

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2018, 11:42:51 AM »
That's a cool gun.  I wish each gun could tell a story of where they've been and what they've seen.  Some of those stories might be ugly, but I bet many stories would be interesting and things that maybe aren't reported in popular version of history.

I recall watching a show about WWII and what led up to it.  Something about a soldier (I forget which country) had a chance to kill a young Adolf Hitler when he was serving in the Bavarian Army and serving as a dispatch runner when on the front lines (at least for a time).  It was apparently from Hitler's account that the soldier had a chance to kill him, but something it was at the end of a bloody battle and Hilter wasn't armed and didn't present a threat, so the solider let him run away.  Then the following discussion on how that single decision could have changed history.  Always found stuff like that interesting.

Absolutely!  i wish they could talk and what amazing stories they could tell.  Like you, I am interested in all of that stuff.  I know that my Sten and PPSh-41 were both picked up off of a dead German soldier and brought back to the states.  I met the widow of the soldier who brought them back.  He then sold them to a buddy in 1963 for "Around $25" for the pair, then that guy luckily amnesty registered them in 1968.  When he passed away, I bought them from his estate in 2013.  Those could probably tell some stories!  A British MG and a Russian MG picked up off a dead German soldier at the very end of the war!

My MG42, MG34, MP44, M3A1, and MP40 were also all papered bring backs amnesty registered.  Unfortunately I don't know the stories that go with them and have been unable to trace their history back to the previous owners any farther back than the 1970s.

My Colt Thompson was bought by a doctor that lived about 5 miles from AlCapones vacation house in Miami in 1927!  The house is still there too.  VERY wealthy looking house for the 1920s.  There is no documentation linking it to anything, but I like to pretend.  The records show the doctor buying it in 1922, then him registering it in 1934 with the NFA act, then it being transferred to a gun dealer out of A POLICE DEPARTMENT in 1956.  How did the police department get it?!  Oh the stories I can make up from that!  hahahahah.

This Type 11 I have only just begun to trace it's history.  So far I just know probably the biggest MG collector back in the day owned it, and it was part of a museums collection after that.  Thats it so far.  the hunt continues!

I could go on and on.  Again, like you, I love the stories, and many machine guns especially have a lot of stories.

changemyoil66

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2018, 11:55:19 AM »
Maybe if you contact a historian direct and provide the serial #, they can trace it back.  IDK who in Germany you would have to contact or Japan.

Maybe start by googling WW2 weapons collectors (like the ones on TV) and see if they can help out.  I'm sure they would want to know also.

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2018, 12:03:57 PM »
Maybe if you contact a historian direct and provide the serial #, they can trace it back.  IDK who in Germany you would have to contact or Japan.

Maybe start by googling WW2 weapons collectors (like the ones on TV) and see if they can help out.  I'm sure they would want to know also.

Nah, it' nothing new to me.  First you file for a FOIA with the ATF and you get all the old documents on these guns.  Most of it is blacked out, but some is still helpful.  One helpful thing is you see if it was registered in 1968 or sometime before that.  That's the one "good" thing about registration since 1934 and 1968, is that there is a paper trail.  I use the world "good" loosely.  Once you get that though, you basically start calling people and visiting houses.  Now that I live back in Kauai most of the time it's a little harder, but I will track back the history eventually.  Since J. Curtis Earl owned it at one point, that helps a TON.  Honestly, me and other machine gun collectors know more about these things than the hosts you see on TV shows.  They borrow our guns in their shows!  haha.  This Type 11 of mine is actually in a documentary on these guns that'll be out in a couple months I believe.

drck1000

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2018, 01:08:19 PM »
Absolutely!  i wish they could talk and what amazing stories they could tell.  Like you, I am interested in all of that stuff.  I know that my Sten and PPSh-41 were both picked up off of a dead German soldier and brought back to the states.  I met the widow of the soldier who brought them back.  He then sold them to a buddy in 1963 for "Around $25" for the pair, then that guy luckily amnesty registered them in 1968.  When he passed away, I bought them from his estate in 2013.  Those could probably tell some stories!  A British MG and a Russian MG picked up off a dead German soldier at the very end of the war!

My MG42, MG34, MP44, M3A1, and MP40 were also all papered bring backs amnesty registered.  Unfortunately I don't know the stories that go with them and have been unable to trace their history back to the previous owners any farther back than the 1970s.

My Colt Thompson was bought by a doctor that lived about 5 miles from AlCapones vacation house in Miami in 1927!  The house is still there too.  VERY wealthy looking house for the 1920s.  There is no documentation linking it to anything, but I like to pretend.  The records show the doctor buying it in 1922, then him registering it in 1934 with the NFA act, then it being transferred to a gun dealer out of A POLICE DEPARTMENT in 1956.  How did the police department get it?!  Oh the stories I can make up from that!  hahahahah.

This Type 11 I have only just begun to trace it's history.  So far I just know probably the biggest MG collector back in the day owned it, and it was part of a museums collection after that.  Thats it so far.  the hunt continues!

I could go on and on.  Again, like you, I love the stories, and many machine guns especially have a lot of stories.

That's awesome that you have at least some of history on a few of your guns.  To have been able to meet the widow of the solider was priceless.  The closest I have to a war story is a Rem Rand 1911 that my uncle brought back from Vietnam.  He got it off of a "field guy" in the latter parts of his tour (I think it may have been his second) shortly before returned home.  My uncle knows I'm into guns and wanted me to have this one and he told me some of the stories.  I didn't push for any more information as I figured he'd tell me if he wanted to.  However, he's getting up there in age and has had some serious health problems recently. 

When I think about war bring backs, I remember that scene from Deuce Bigelow.  Haha.  I personally don't have any items like that.  Once upon a time I was into katanas, history, the ones "used", etc.  I eventually got a really nice Chinese produced katana.  It took a lot to get into them because you had to learn the ins and outs, but it was also worth the time to learn about the history of them.  I think my grandfather on my dad's side brought a katana when the immigrated to Molokai, but that and other family heirlooms are not able to be accounted for.  The family was a split one in that the first three kids arefrom wife #1 and the last six are from wife #2.  They didn't get along back in the day, so I assume that those items got lost in the mix somewhere in there. 

Anyways, nice guns.  If you get around to firing them, any of them, please get a video!   :thumbsup:

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2018, 01:27:28 PM »
That's awesome that you have at least some of history on a few of your guns.  To have been able to meet the widow of the solider was priceless.  The closest I have to a war story is a Rem Rand 1911 that my uncle brought back from Vietnam.  He got it off of a "field guy" in the latter parts of his tour (I think it may have been his second) shortly before returned home.  My uncle knows I'm into guns and wanted me to have this one and he told me some of the stories.  I didn't push for any more information as I figured he'd tell me if he wanted to.  However, he's getting up there in age and has had some serious health problems recently. 

When I think about war bring backs, I remember that scene from Deuce Bigelow.  Haha.  I personally don't have any items like that.  Once upon a time I was into katanas, history, the ones "used", etc.  I eventually got a really nice Chinese produced katana.  It took a lot to get into them because you had to learn the ins and outs, but it was also worth the time to learn about the history of them.  I think my grandfather on my dad's side brought a katana when the immigrated to Molokai, but that and other family heirlooms are not able to be accounted for.  The family was a split one in that the first three kids arefrom wife #1 and the last six are from wife #2.  They didn't get along back in the day, so I assume that those items got lost in the mix somewhere in there. 

Anyways, nice guns.  If you get around to firing them, any of them, please get a video!   :thumbsup:

Cool stuff man! 

zippz

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 01:45:58 PM »
I would love to have one of those or fire one.  I'm still planning on getting an Arisaka.

michaelkih

Re: My new (to me) 1942 Japanese Type 11 Machine gun - Lots of Pictures
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 03:39:17 PM »
I would love to have one of those or fire one.  I'm still planning on getting an Arisaka.

Yes, definitely get a 99 or 38.  They are good guns, and really unique wherever you go.  I prefer the 99.  Early 1940s.

In the off chance that you are ever headed to DFW, Texas, let me know, and if I'm there, you can shoot my Type 11, or pretty much any other machine gun you want to shoot.    ;D